Big Universe Podcast: Mindful Parenting
Josephine Atluri, mother of seven and an expert on mindfulness, joins Sarah and Jim to talk about mindful parenting and how we can have a joyful experience with our kids by keeping ourselves on a positive track.
BIG UNIVERSE PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Jim Lefter (01:00):
Hello and welcome to Big Universe and Unity Online Radio. I'm Jim Lefter. I'll give you a quick guess. Guess what? I'll be your host for today. I'm a spiritual journeyman and a media consultant. I run a website with online courses called uthrivehere.com and I'm at the Center for Spiritual Living Greater Baltimore at cslgreaterbaltimore.org. Joining me today is my spectacular cohost spiritual rebel, Sarah Bowen. Sarah is the author of Spiritual Rebel: A Positively Addictive Guide to Finding Deeper Perspective and Higher Purpose, and, she's got a new one coming out soon. I want to ask you, are you feeling mindful today, Sarah?
Sarah Bowen (01:40):
That's an interesting question. I am feeling curious and a desire to be mindful. It's been a busy morning, so that's a good reminder.
Jim Lefter (01:50):
I'm with you. I could use a dose of mindfulness and, uh, you know, clarifying a little bit more in that regard. It's been an interesting morning for me too. So this is the perfect topic for us today.
Sarah Bowen (02:01):
It is. I think that a lot of times we think that our spiritual practices need to be perfect. Uh, they need to be disciplined. They need to be regular that, you know, there's all these kinds of pressure we put on what they're supposed to look like. And I think today's guest is going to shake that up a little bit for us in terms of how can you be mindful when there's a lot going on? And you know, I don't know that I can complain that I have a lot going on when I look at how much she's got going on in her house.
Jim Lefter (02:27):
She has seven kids. Seven kids.
Sarah Bowen (02:31):
I can't even comprehend seven kids. So I am very, very curious to hear about how you are mindful around seven kids and then maybe I can be mindful, uh, improve my mindfulness around the things in my life.
Jim Lefter (02:44):
Well, Josephine hopefully is going to be able to do that for us. I know she will. I know she will.
Sarah Bowen (02:49):
Seven kids, Jim.
Jim Lefter (02:49):
Seven kids. I have one and mindfulness as a practice I still need to continue.
Sarah Bowen (02:58):
It is. You know I do wonder. I do wonder if perhaps having a whole bunch of, I don't know, you know what we'll find out with Josephine.
Jim Lefter (03:07):
All right. Do you have a quote for us today?
Sarah Bowen (03:10):
I do. Here we go. "Do not think that love, in order to be genuine, has to be extraordinary. How does a lamp burn? Through the continuous input of small drops of oil. What are the drops of oil in our lamps? They are the small things of daily life: faithfulness, small words of kindness, a thought for others, our way of looking of speaking of acting. Be faithful in small things, because it is in them that your strength lies." Mother Teresa
Jim Lefter (03:45):
Mother Teresa. Wonderful.
Sarah Bowen (03:47):
I did a little pun on motherhood today, but I think that's really wise words in terms of, you know, I wake up sometimes thinking the day has to be big. Something amazing has to happen. And sometimes the amazing is in the very, very small little things that happen.
Jim Lefter (04:03):
Absolutely.
Sarah Bowen (04:05):
What'd you come up with today?
Jim Lefter (04:07):
Here's mine. "You' are one thing only. You're a Divine Being. An all powerful Creator. You are a Deity in jeans and a t-shirt, and within you dwells the infinite wisdom of the ages and the sacred creative force of All that is, will be and ever was."
Sarah Bowen (04:25):
A Deity in jeans and a t-shirt.
Jim Lefter (04:27):
Isn't that cool?
Sarah Bowen (04:28):
I love that. Who is it?
Jim Lefter (04:31):
Uh, a gentleman named Anton St. Martin. I'm not really familiar with him. He's a psychic medium, but I saw the quote and I thought that's a really good quote. So I thought I'd quote him. All right, are you ready to get into the episode?
Sarah Bowen (04:45):
Let's do it.
Jim Lefter (10:21):
And now it's time for our interview. Josephine Atluri is an expert in meditation and mindfulness, helping thousands of people overcome adversity to find joy. Her experience creating her modern day family of seven children via in vitro fertilization, international adoption, and surrogacy, inspires her work as a highly sought after fertility and parenting mindfulness coach. Josephine hosts a popular podcast, Responding to Life: Talking Health, Fertility & Parenthood. Her work has been featured in Motherly, mindbodygreen, The Bump, Prevention Magazine and Woman's Day. Josephine offers private sessions and online mindfulness courses at jatluri.com. For daily inspiration follow her on Instagram @josephineratluri and on YouTube for free meditation videos. And she has a new book out, the Mindful Parenting Journal Hi Josephine, welcome to Big Universe.
Josephine Atluri (11:44):
Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for our conversation today.
Jim Lefter (11:46):
It's so great to have you. While you know, the first thing I have to say is seven kids. That's a lot of kids.
Josephine Atluri (11:54):
Yeah. We lose count sometimes
Jim Lefter (11:57):
I don't lose count because I have one. So I'm pretty, I'm pretty clear on the math there.
Sarah Bowen (12:02):
If you lost count we'd really have to talk about mindful parenting.
Jim Lefter (12:03):
We would definitely have to talk about that, but we're going to talk about it anyway. So Josephine, why did you decide to write this book?
Josephine Atluri (12:16):
Yes. Great question. I, you know, I am always asked by my clients by other people how I'm able to stay so calm, with all the children and all the chaos that surrounds me on a daily basis. And I thought, you know what, let me just put all this in a book. And so that's how, that's how the book came about. And, you know, I jokingly say it's because of my kiddos that I turned into mindfulness and meditation. I never thought I was the person that would be able to do it - type a, constant post-its and lists, and my mind is just racing with all the things that we have to do. But I had a friend who kept pushing me to do it and, you know, long story short, I fell in love. I had to level it up by taking a training course with no intention of teaching, but once that was done, I knew I had to share it with everyone. So I started teaching, I started my own podcast, I started courses and then that's how the book happened next.
Jim Lefter (13:18):
Wow. So what does mindfulness mean to you? What does that word mean to you?
Josephine Atluri (13:24):
Yeah. And you know, people throw that word around a lot and I like to simplify it. So it's basically just an awareness. And you think about an awareness for oneself. So an awareness of how you're feeling today, your body, how your emotions, your mental health is feeling, and then you extend it out into your environment. So how being aware of what's happening around you and then being aware of the other people that you're interacting with are also feeling. And when you have mindfulness or awareness as a foundation for everything, it touches upon every part of your life. So you can imagine that, of course, you know, obviously with the book, it touches upon parenting, but it can also touch upon your working relationships, how you eat, how you exercise, how you sleep, because it basically is just being aware of what you're doing in those different parts of your life.
Jim Lefter (14:20):
One of the things you talk about in the book is regaining your focus. You know, when all this stuff is going on especially dealing with the kids and, and, um, dealing with all the bits and pieces of life. You talk about regaining your focus. Why is that an important first step? And what does that mean?
Josephine Atluri (14:39):
Yeah, so I structured the book to start off with the individual because we've all heard the adage of how we have to take care of ourselves - put the breathing mask on ourself before we can help other people. And the same goes with mindfulness. So if you are trying to incorporate that into your parenting, there's no way to do it unless you've been able to work on it yourself and build awareness with oneself. And so regaining your focus. I'm sure you've heard about multitasking, but the benefits of it, or maybe not the benefits of it, but I used to be just this hardcore multi-tasker. But what I found though, is that as I was doing it, I was losing touch with the present moment. It got so bad that when I was back before, when I was consulting for a fitness company, I would look upon my day and remember just sort of the general things, but not so much the, the little interactions, because I was so busy doing so many things at once.
Josephine Atluri (15:39):
So I felt like I was really missing out on what was happening in life. And that was my wake up call. That's sort of what led me to that next step of exploring what this was all about, you know? Yes. I told myself, yes, I'm hanging out with my children, but was I really? Because I couldn't remember what I said to them at that moment because I was also on my phone doing work. And so regaining your focus is about recognizing all the things that you do on a daily basis. And it requires sort of a deep dive into yourself and asking yourself these hard questions, but also sort of seeing where you're running on autopilot. And there are some things that are totally beneficial for autopilot and, you know, even our bodies do that without us really realizing what's happening like our digestive system and all of these things. But there are certain things that we need to do that aren't so much in autopilot so that we can truly be in that moment and experience things with our, in particular, in this conversation, with our children.
Sarah Bowen (16:43):
I really appreciate this pointing out of multitasking because I tend to get into this idea that I need to multitask to get all my stuff done real quick. So then I can meditate.
Josephine Atluri (16:53):
Yes, right.
Sarah Bowen (16:55):
Which kind of goes, which kind of goes backwards, I think.
Josephine Atluri (16:58):
Yeah, no, that's true. You know, multitasking, if you think about it, when you're doing certain things, if you had just taken a moment to do each thing on its own, it would have taken you a lot shorter of a time versus sort of doing all these different things - you're bouncing from here to bounce into there and I'm guilty of it. And then you realize, well, this took me an hour. I could have just sent off that email in a minute versus me sending off the email, but then also juggling this and that. And so that's yeah, that's what I ask people to explore when in that, like that first section of regaining their focus and just seeing like, where are these parts of my life, where I'm doing this? Where is it a detriment to myself? And, and how can I just be aware of this at all times?
Josephine Atluri (17:46):
And it's really about questioning ourselves constantly. Like that's what mindfulness, that's how I like to share about mindfulness and talk about it because it's this constant evaluation of what you're doing and having this internal conversation with yourself of like, okay, well, why did I do that? Or why did I say that? Or how can I do this better? And it really starts with that awareness that you can then have clarity to figure out, well, do I want to keep doing this? Is this really the best plan of action? And then you're able to respond in a more mindful, in a more mindful way with clarity.
Sarah Bowen (18:21):
And when it comes to parenting, one of the things that you say in the book is to look at your parenting win. Can you tell us a little bit what, what is a parenting win?
Josephine Atluri (18:31):
Yeah. You know, we're always looking, I mentioned in the book a negativity bias and way back when, when we were still hunters and things like that, we, we were programmed to look out for things that could cause us harm. And so we were prone to looking out for negative things because our survival was dependent upon it. But in this day and age, that's not necessarily the case, but we're still wired for this bias towards negativity. And this, you know, this goes against us now, because now it turns into this inner critic, which I also mentioned in the book, about how we constantly just have this little voice in our head that's critiquing everything that we do outside of parenting and our workspace, everything. And so I mentioned taking a moment to celebrate those parenting wins because we can go through life much on autopilot and not celebrate those moments where, you know, they were, it was a happy experience.
Josephine Atluri (19:29):
Like we were able to, for example, we were able to drop off our kids at school versus having someone else do it or something like something little like that, that probably made your heart feel good and definitely made your child feel great that you were able to do that. So little things that you take for granted. And, and then, you know, especially during this time of, of COVID and things like that, we've had a chance to really look at things in a different light and see what we were taking for granted. See the things that you know, that we just assume or would always be there. Experiences that we'd always have, and now we're able to take a step back and reevaluate things and appreciate things better. And so that's what I'm asking people to do when they're being mindful is to look at life from a different perspective, through a different lens of awareness. So that little wins, like taking your kid to school, can be celebrated and appreciated.
Sarah Bowen (20:24):
I'm picturing when you're saying, taking your kids to school, Jim, are you picturing the same thing that I am, that Josephine has seven kids she's taking to school? I don't know if that's accurate or not. You're saying it's a little thing, seven kids going to school. So tell me a little bit, so you've got seven kids. What, what is the age span here? What is it? Can you explain for our listeners when we keep kind of coming back that as your point of inspiration being mindful?
Josephine Atluri (20:54):
Yeah. So my eldest is about to turn, he's turning 15 next month. I have 12 year old boy, girl twins. I have five-year-old boy twins and three month old girl twins. So the school-aged kids are all in three different schools so you're right in calling me out on that, in that I don't get to drop all of them off at the same time. I mean, that would be some major skills, especially in LA, but it doesn't work out that way. So I'm talking about being happy that I'm able to take one set and just live in that moment. Like, for me, it's great because I'm actually able to appreciate it versus feeling like I'm rushed and having to go to all three. So that for me is something that's a win because I got to appreciate that moment. And everyone is different obviously, but just looking at different things through that lens of appreciation.
Jim Lefter (21:51):
I've found that when I, when I journal at times, I actually have a separate journal where I journal about my son and just bits and pieces. I don't, it's not a huge journal, but it's like, I remember this story so I want to write it down or something happens during the day and I want to write it down. You know, this tender moment happened. I find that's a great way for me to remember some of these, these wins, these things that happen. Do you recommend journaling? Do you, what are your thoughts on journaling?
Josephine Atluri (22:24):
I love that you do that, Jim. That's so great because we have these moments that pop up in our lives and we want to remember them. And then, but they're not like they're not like these really big moments that you might lock away in your memory - you make a point of locking away in your memory - they're just sort of an everyday thing. So I love that you journal about that because it's a great way of doing it. You know, my book is a journal and so I'm a big proponent of it.
Speaker 8 (22:55):
I thought that was a lead in so sort of handing that to me.
Jim Lefter (22:59):
Definitely, please continue. Why is journaling so important?
Josephine Atluri (23:05):
Yeah. So it's for that purpose of, you know, if you found, let's say you, you write things down versus just sort of saying it out loud to a friend or, or even just thinking about it. In those three different instances, you get a little bit more out from one versus the other. So from just thinking about it in your head, you get some things, but when you're telling it to a friend or your partner, you expound on it a little bit more, right? But then when you, when you journal about it, I find, and what I've heard from other people, is that you're kind of doing a brain dump and you're able to get so much more out, especially if you're just free-flowing. And a lot of things just come up that you necessarily would not have thought of. At least that has been my experience and my clients' experiences.
Josephine Atluri (23:55):
Especially if you leave it sort of open-ended. Maybe you have one prompt and you're able to just, and you know that no one else is looking at it, so then you feel free to just let it all out. And I know for some people that it's hard to put pen to paper and it takes a lot of time. So I suggest if that pertains to you, then you can dictate it. We have, you know, on our phone, we can dictate texts. We can dictate emails. You can dictate to your notes app. So that's a great hack if you can't really get it down, but then you have it there. So it's like as if you were talking out loud and it's great, because then you do have that record when you look back of something happening or you exploring feelings. And so that's why I'm, uh, you know, and if you don't do it regularly, just maybe even setting, um, knowing that you do it at the beginning of every month, even if you do it like that, that's a great way to make sure you sort of capture a moment in time.
Sarah Bowen (24:55):
One of the things I noticed when I first, uh, got your journal Josephine, and I was thinking, well, you know, I don't have seven small children. I have a older stepson who's in his thirties, you know, does this apply? And, and what I realized when I started doing some of the exercises was it took me to kind of deepen some of the things that I hadn't thought about in a while, you know, with, with older children or who aren't children anymore, although we still call them that, um, the idea of maybe we aren't thinking about that relationship every day, because now they're out doing their own thing as well. Uh, that there's never a stopping point of the inner critic that one might have about parenting just because they've successfully left the nest. So I just kind of wanted to pop that in for any of the people who are listening, who think, well, you know, my, my kids are grown, that going into that inquiry can be useful too.
Josephine Atluri (25:51):
Yeah, no, I love that you brought that up. I definitely had people who have older kids who have read it as well as people who are in sort of that grandparenting season of life. And even if you're not in sort of have grandkids or your kids are just older, I tried to make it pretty general. There were definitely moments in the book where it pertains to little ones. But if you look at it through just sort of questioning and exploring yourself and your relationship with your adult children, you can still gain so much out of it. Because for example, one of them was about empathy and your older child still needs, it's a completely different version of it than what it would look like if they're five, but they still need for you to be able to communicate with them when they do reach out in a very open manner that requires you to be mindful, be present, have empathy, and, and have kindness to what they're saying. So you're creating a safe space for them, but also letting them feel like they're feeling heard, which is what deep down all of us want.
Jim Lefter (26:58):
Definitely, definitely. Well, we will be right back on Big Universe on Unity Online Radio.
Jim Lefter (27:40):
Welcome back to Big Universe on Unity Online Radio. So Josephine, you have so many wonderful prompts in this book to get us going on things. And one of the things that seemed very important to me was watching your child's joy, you know? And, you know, I think we get caught up in the things that have to get done and all that stuff. We forget how important that is, you know, that we watch our children have fun, you know, that we take the time to do that. Could you speak to that a little bit?
Josephine Atluri (28:14):
Yes. I'm a victim to that myself. And actually it has become watching my children experience joy and wonder has been one of my favorite things to do now, especially during quarantine when like the beginning of it when we were just left at home. So I, now I look upon my children, the different ages too, and when I see a smile pop up on their face or see them enjoying something, I just, that's my cue to just stop and just take, like, just witness what they're doing and seeing them happy as a parent that just fills me up. It fills up my bucket with joy and reminds me, you know what? This is a parenting win I'm doing something right, that they're feeling this way, whether or not I'm involved in that joy or not, doesn't matter. It's just seeing them experience that brings me happiness and fulfillment as a parent.
Josephine Atluri (29:08):
And oftentimes as you pointed out, Jim, we are just so used to getting all the things done, checking off all the lists that we have, that we lose out on these moments. But if you take them, just have a mental note in your, the back of your mind that whenever you see your child doing something, just to take a pause, just hit that that will be your cue to hit the pause button, look at what they're doing, seeing them happy. You don't have to interact with them, just witnessing what's happening and then moving back on with whatever you were doing, but that will instantly fill you up with gratitude and appreciation
Jim Lefter (29:46):
That plays into it for me, for emotional awareness, both awareness of their emotions, but also of yours, because you know where you're coming from as a parent in that moment is so important.
Josephine Atluri (30:01):
Yes. Emotional awareness. And that's, it's really key for us to be able to start tuning into how we're feeling, why we're feeling that way and to be able to then act from that place of clarity. Because when we are able to do that for ourselves, whether or not we realize it, our children, they're constantly watching us. They're seeing how we interact on a daily basis with life and with the challenges that we meet and whether or not we're vocalizing it, I like to vocalize it, especially to my littl ones, like just sort of step by step what I'm doing. Whether or not they hear that, they're still witnessing it and they're tucking away in the back of their mind. And that plays into like one of the earlier questions in the book about, you know, how does this, how does your parenting style, like what part of it is coming from your past? You know, how you were parented as a child, because a lot of it does come back into play.
Jim Lefter (30:57):
Definitely.
Josephine Atluri (30:57):
And so by showing our children that we can be aware of our emotions and that it's okay to have a range of emotions, not just the happy ones, that it's okay for them to do the same. And so whenever I sort of going through something, whether it's happy or sad or frustrating, I remember in the back of my mind and that's that awareness piece kicking in, that all this would be so helpful for my kids to see and to understand so that they know how they can do it and apply it in their own lives. Maybe not now, but definitely later, and how I would have appreciated that same experience when I was little knowing how to deal with these really big emotions that I didn't think, you know, at the time were appropriate or needed to be heard out loud and that I just needed to internalize. So I've really taken a cue from sort of digging deep with my past and making a concerted effort to change that moving forward for my own kids.
Jim Lefter (32:01):
In that emotional release, that emotional demonstration, I think is so important to a kid because you know, a lot of us grow up, especially as a guy, you know, you're not supposed to exhibit certain behaviors. You're not supposed to cry. You're not supposed to do this or do that. And I think seeing a parent demonstrate that this is okay in response to things, you know, that you're, you're, it's okay to feel these things and to actually see that play out in a person's life. Sarah, you were about to say something and I interrupted you.
Sarah Bowen (32:39):
I was going say something similar. And it, and it comes to that idea that you talk about as well, Josephine and, and that many of us are, are no stranger to a progress, not perfection that, you know, holding our children up to the idea that they have to show their perfect sides to us. I don't think benefits either us or them, you know, that that life is incredibly messy. And being able to talk about that mess and, you know, not, you know, I was like the worst words I ever say, are I got this. Something, you know, that something's gonna go wrong right after I say that something's going to, something's going to go sideways whenever I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got this, I got this, but can you talk a little bit about, about that, about perfection? Can you, can you talk about how you view perfection or the quest for perfection when you've got seven different ages and, and all, all of this kind of emotion in your, in your home?
Josephine Atluri (33:43):
Yeah, no, I love this question because I kind of feel like perfection or the word perfect is almost like a dirty word because it's just, you know what, I don't want it in our household because I just, it holds you up to this standard and it goes back to this idea of setting expectations that may not even be realistic and all of the stress and pressure that comes with it, it's just unnecessary. So, you know, progress, I am constantly telling the, the children and make a point of never using the word perfect in our dialogue only because I draw out from my own experience as a child, as a teenager, as a grownup and how much, that word really like, I attached so much to that word. So much of my actions and the things that I did were to attain this perfection, which, you know, in the end really did not serve me well and caused me so much unnecessary stress and worry.
Josephine Atluri (34:43):
And so I've been really careful about choosing my words around the kids. And so that's one of the things that I always tell them, you know, it's okay that it doesn't turn out the way you want, but if I see you working hard towards it, and I see that you're making an effort, then it's all about the progress. And by the way, it's also about the journey. Because a lot of times I see them and, you know, we all do it. We're all trying to get towards that end goal, whatever it is in our mind that we're trying to achieve, but in the process we get lost and I'm not necessarily lost, but we lose touch with enjoyment of the process. And it really is the process that we're trying to live, right? To be in the present moment and be in the here and now, because once you get to that goal and then what? You know, and then there's the next one, right?
Josephine Atluri (35:34):
Yeah, exactly. And so that it, all of all ties in together. And so I, you know, I try to embody this idea that I'm not perfect. I make it very clear to them. And so if you're looking for the perfect mom, she's not over here, but she's trying, and she's working really hard. And that's what I expect from all of you is to try and work hard. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be pretty. But we put in our efforts and, and that, and we enjoy the experience getting there. And that's what counts.
Jim Lefter (36:05):
We all deal with that inner critic, you know, especially as parents, you know, oh, I should have done this. You know, there are things in my experience with my son that I look back and I say, oh man, I wish I had handled this in a different way. You know? And how, how do you deal with the inner critic? Is it through self care? Is it through talking back? How do you deal with the inner critic when you're in those moments of, of, of that experience?
Josephine Atluri (36:33):
Yeah. It takes a lot of practice and I still have that voice in my head. You always have that little voice inside of our head, but what I like to do with all the mindfulness exercises and over the years is to cultivate another voice - another voice that will challenge the inner critic. And so, you know, you'll have that voice telling you, oh, you're not a great parent. That was not the best thing. Then I have trained myself to have that other conversation in my head and the person that little voice asking, well, who said, and why not? Why wasn't that great? And do you remember that you did this and your child loved it? You know, so it's having this dialogue in your head and it sounds crazy because are you supposed to have a voice in your head? But it's just constant self-talk, right? You have to be able to challenge those things that you've grown to, to hear and to allow yourself to hear.
Josephine Atluri (37:29):
And what's happening is the more you do it, you're creating this neural pathway, you're building it up, so that it's easier for you to do in the future. It's easier for you to have that voice quickly come back and challenge that other voice so that way you can quickly shift to a more positive state of mind versus spiraling into that negative state, because you feel crappy about what you did. And now, as you constantly do it, you've built up your ability to instead go towards that positivity and lean into those thoughts of, of like how you were a great parent versus believing the other stuff. And, you know, what's beautiful, and I, I hear this from clients, but also in my own experience, at a certain point, you know, if you keep doing it, it starts to happen automatically, almost like that autopilot that we were talking about.
Josephine Atluri (38:24):
When you do it so often now, you know, before, like before I'm really open about this, I had an eating disorder in my thirties, and I would always critique myself in the mirror, but, you know, through therapy and all this work that I did, I would always challenge it. And now it gets to the point where I'll look in the mirror, you know, maybe I'm having like not so great day and that voice will, will pop up in my head, but immediately then I'll have the other voice say, what are you talking about? And you, look, you look great or you you've done all of this stuff. And so the end goal is that it doesn't disappear, but you're able to have that challenge come quicker and to not get sucked into that spiral.
Jim Lefter (39:05):
And one of the things that, one of the prompts that you have in the book that I really like is the letter to your younger self, which I think talks, you know, speaks to this a lot, you know, in, in that, you know, you, you, you can, you can reach that younger self within you. Can you talk about that idea?
Josephine Atluri (39:27):
Yeah. It's, it's a great exercise to like, especially if you're new to journaling, you don't really know what to say. It's a great prompt to help you explore what happened in the past. You know as a mindfulness and meditation coach, I'm always asking people to be present and not to spend too much time in the past or too much time in the future, but there are certain instances when it's great for you, it's therapeutic and very beneficial, to just go back, to explore what may be influencing what you do today. And so that letter to yourself is just, it's, it's a way for you to practice that positive self-talk. A way for you to cultivate that positive voice versus that inner critic because in that letter, what you're trying to tell yourself is, hey, you know, I've been through all of this stuff and at the end of it, this is what I've learned.
Josephine Atluri (40:22):
And by the way, as you were going along as you were going through it, you were really brave. You were really strong for handling all this stuff. And so, you know, let your younger self, don't worry about it. You know, here are my key takeaways that I would love for you to remember about yourself. And it's really a way for you to speak to yourself in a positive manner, and to remind yourself of your strengths, which can be hard for us to do, just saying it out loud. So this is kind of an exercise for you to go about it in a different way,
Jim Lefter (40:58):
The fight or flight response, you know, when stress comes up, you know, we, we, we automatically go a lot of times to this fight or flight response and you talk about reframing that. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I know that, you know, as we examine our experiences, you know, we, we can look at things differently.
Josephine Atluri (41:19):
It happens when we get triggered in a situation. In the past way back when it used to be an animal attacking us. But nowadays it is, could be something as simple as an email that we received, that all of a sudden sends us a spiral of negativity. We get triggered, you'll start to feel it, physically, because your heart will start racing. You'll start to sweat. Now, your blood pressure is rising. And so you are now in a fight or flight state and what you can do then to get out of it, there are many mindfulness techniques and meditation techniques that you can apply to move yourself from that state into the rest and digest, which is the opposite, which is that calmer state. And it's called rest and digest because, you know, when you're getting calmer, all the other systems that turned off, now get turned back on whether you realize it or not your digestive system, your reproductive system, all of those things get shut off when you're in a fight or flight state, when you're in a very triggered high stress situation, because your body is trying to prioritize your life.
Josephine Atluri (42:24):
So it prioritizes things that will help keep you alive, and you don't need your digestive system. So that's why it's called rest and digest. But so anyway, one of the techniques is to reframe the situation. And, you know, for example, let's say you I'm drawing upon my own experience because we were exposed to COVID. That's why it's a little crazy today. We were exposed to COVID and I could feel myself - I know my physical responses to anxiety and stress for me - it's having a shorter breath, feeling tightness in my chest, all of those things. I started to feel everyone's energy and allow it to suck me in, you know, their worry and everything like that. And in that moment, what I did was I tried to reframe the situation and look at it from a different perspective.
Josephine Atluri (43:14):
So I asked myself, well, what do I know to be true in this situation? And what worry can I let go of in this moment until I have actual data; until I have something to actually worry about, because right now I'm just creating these things in my head and that serves no one. And so those, that would be a way of reframing it. And so you would come upon a situation that you feel very stressed out about, and you're just asking yourself, again, you're challenging the narrative, the story that you're telling yourself in your mind of the actual situation, and it's just this internal dialogue in your head to help you calm down, first of all, and help you realize that what, like, what is worth worrying about right now? And what can you let go?
Jim Lefter (44:02):
What evidence is there versus what, what you can perceive right now and what, what you have right now. Yeah. That's, especially in the time of COVID, that's so important to, to understand that. So sometimes I don't know if you've noticed this at all, but sometimes especially when they're little, kids have meltdowns. Have you ever noticed that?
Josephine Atluri (44:24):
Not in this household [laughing].
Jim Lefter (44:28):
So how can we remind ourselves to be compassionate and understanding when your kid is having a meltdown?
Josephine Atluri (44:34):
Yeah, I get this question so much whenever I speak to moms groups and I feel for them, because when you're in the heart of the situation, you're in, you're in the fight or flight stress situation, you're, you're sweating - especially your kid decides to do it in public.
Jim Lefter (44:51):
Always at the right time.
Josephine Atluri (44:56):
They're smart like that. And so, you know, that's when really in a high stress situation. And so I, you know, I start, I do a number of things. One is I need to calm myself down. I need to get in a clearer state of mind so that I can see what's actually happening versus creating a story for myself about like, what is actually happening with this child, what they really need versus if I can calm down using a breathing strategy immediately, I'll bring myself to that rest and digest state. I can then see clearly, like, what are they doing? And then perhaps have a conversation with them, depending on their age, of what it is that they need. Or if they're just so triggered with like a huge, big emotion tantrum, then just offering them space and not having it laced with my irritation, with with anger, with anything like that, just being completely open to being empathetic to them and showing them kindness so that they can feel like I am listening to them and supporting them.
Josephine Atluri (46:09):
And once I've found that they are able to feel that and witness that it goes down a little bit less, right? They really just want your attention. I mean, first and foremost, that's why that tantrum is happening. They are not able to convey what they want. And so they need to grab your attention. So if you're able to do that in a calm way, because of the strategies that you're employing, then you can now hopefully, once they start to calm down, you can now work together collaboratively because you're able to communicate together in a more open way. And you're able to infuse in that situation, you know, empathy and kindness and, and really see what the situation is about versus what you're telling yourself it's all about, which, you know, it might not be the real story. There might be something else that happened that you weren't aware of. And so, or they could be triggered from something else. So that is, that's kind of a quick way of how I, I sort of approach those situations and coach parents to, and it sounds so, so easy. I know it really isn't
Sarah Bowen (47:18):
Flashback in the back of my head. I'm hearing my mother yelling, Sarah, go to your room. And I was thinking, as you were speaking, how, how parenting has perhaps changed in the, in these ways of offering space for children to have those emotions rather than banishing them for having them.
Josephine Atluri (47:37):
Right? Yes. Yeah, no, I see it in different. It comes out in different ways with the various ages of the kids and their ability to communicate. And I always have to have you just always have to have that in the back of your mind that, you know, they're trying to say something to me. They might not be able to get it out. They might not have the words for it. They might not even know what's happening. So I just need to be this space for them. And so that's just my constant mindful reminder to myself.
Jim Lefter (48:08):
Well, we only have a few minutes left, but I wanted to mention, because this reminds me of, you know, those occasionally you notice a challenging trait that your kid has and, uh, you, you, I know crazy, but, uh, you you've helped me in the idea of shifting your perspective to accept it as a unique quality rather than a problem, you know, just because we're different doesn't mean you're not valid, you know? And so talk to that a little bit, if you could just a few minutes here.
Josephine Atluri (48:40):
Yeah, yeah. That was definitely, that was one of the prompts in the book. And, you know every kid is different. We all experience things, as you mentioned, that are challenging for us that, for example, perhaps you have a child that just talks endlessly. Just keeps talking and at the wrong moment, you just have all that noise. And you're just trying to get things done. And, you know, in the moment it's irritating - I'm not speaking from experience here,
Josephine Atluri (49:09):
But so in that moment, it can be hard to, to approach it mindfully, right? But if you're constantly used to this voice in your head, that challenges things, and hopefully, you know, you've cultivated and you've practiced and then this moment that you are experiencing this frustration, you stop yourself and ask, why am I feeling this way? And what is it that is bothering me about what, whatever my child's characteristic is. And can I accept the fact that everyone is different? You know, and this is all going through your head. Can I accept the fact that everyone's different and you know, this is something that looked in a different situation altogether would be such a, like an attribute for them. But right now it's just irritating me, but why is it irritating me? Maybe it shouldn't irritate me and I should just let it just wash over me.
Josephine Atluri (49:59):
So these are like, literally, you just got a sneak peek as to what goes on in my head when I have that child constantly talking to me and I'm not sort of vibing with it. And so that really is, you know, if you take anything from this conversation, hopefully you take a lot. But if you take anything from it is that mindfulness is awareness and it allows you to have this conversation in your head so you can challenge things that happen in your life. And perhaps, you'll make some shifts, make some changes that will benefit not only yourself, but also your relationship with your child.
Jim Lefter (50:37):
So if there's one piece of advice, as we end the show, if there's one piece of advice or, or one thought that you would have with our listeners takeaway from this conversation, what would that be?
Josephine Atluri (50:50):
Yeah. So I always just try to incorporate one mindful activity in your day. And that doesn't mean that you have to meditate or anything like that. It can be something as simple as asking yourself a question, hopefully, a question from my book that you flip through, and then you saw it and you thought, oh, you know what? I never asked myself this, why do I do this? Then it just stays with you for the rest of your day, or perhaps you're doing it as you're brushing your teeth, because I'm all about habit stacking. And so even if it's just a question, it's bonus points, if you're able to do a meditation while you're sitting in the carpool lines, but anything that allows you to tune into yourself and reconnect with who you are so that you can transform and enrich your relationship with your family
Jim Lefter (51:35):
And breathing techniques help to give me a breathing technique. What's a good breathing technique?
Josephine Atluri (51:40):
I love releasing and letting go. So I'll do inhale for four seconds. And then I'll double the exhale. And I love that one because when I exhale, I feel, I just feel relief wash over me. And when you exhale, you kind of go, or when you sigh you go like this, [sighs] , your shoulders drop down and you feel like the weight of the world has just fallen back. And so when you slowly exhale out, you can visualize yourself blowing out everything that just doesn't serve you anymore today that you can just let go of. So that's a good one that I like to use when I'm in traffic.
Sarah Bowen (52:18):
And living in LA. I think that's a lot of the time Josephine.
Jim Lefter (52:24):
You know, what was funny is that when we were talking about the person, a child chattering a lot, I, I saw Sarah laughing. I think I have a feeling, maybe Sarah was one of those children that chattered a lot.
Sarah Bowen (52:38):
You know? You would think so. I'm one of those adults that chatters a lot. As a child, I was easily, um, I was easily, would easily become very, very quiet and not speak because I didn't feel that what I had to say was valid or helpful. So I think my whole family needed copies of Josephine's book. We all did the best we could, but it was a long time ago and we didn't necessarily have these, these skills at that time, Jim. So now I'm loquacious.
Jim Lefter (53:10):
Well, thank you so much Josephine for joining us on Big Universe.
Josephine Atluri (53:14):
Well, thank you so much for having me. It's such a great conversation, Jim and Sarah, I really appreciate the opportunity.
Jim Lefter (53:20):
For more information on Josephine Atluri. Please go to jatluri.com and check out her book, the Mindful Parenting Journal. For more great information about Sarah Bowen, go to spiritual-rebel.com. I've got premium video courses and I helped to create them on my website called uthrivehere.com. Thanks everybody. I'm Jim Lefter. We'll talk with you next time on Big Universe on Unity Online radio.
Speaker 9 (54:01):
Thank you for listening. This is unity online radio, the voice of an awakening world.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
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