Off The Record Podcast: Ep. 154. Mindful Parenting to Stay Calm and Connected with Josephine Atluri
“What I was not prepared for was the complete and total lack of time to do anything other than care for the child. And while that is always my number one priority, it still feels like a big loss.”
It is the lack of free time that has stood in the way of staying calm, present, and connected to myself – which is where Josephine Atluri comes in.
OFF THE RECORD PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Annie Tevelin (00:00):
Hey everyone. This is Annie Tevelin, founder of SkinOwl Skincare and your host of Off the Record, the podcast. From years of helping people with their skin, it dawned on me that when you're talking to people about their skin, be it acne or aging, the conversation so often becomes about one's insecurities, lack of self-worth and how to reconcile who they are while living in the skin they're in. The road to healing one's skin is not solely paved with a good face oil or eye concentrate, but with an openness that I felt so fortunate to be on the other end of. This vulnerability motivated me to start a podcast. This podcast. One that has evolved into a magnetic epicenter of amazing humans, telling their story in a truly raw and transparent way. Join me, every Monday, as my guests and I dive deep into universal truths by way of humor, heartache, and hope.
Annie Tevelin (01:16):
Before I had a child of my own, I remember most of the fodder with concern to first-time parenting was about a lot of the same touch points: lack of sleep, weight gain, hygiene, and the ever so popular, 'enjoy doing fill in the blank now, because when the baby comes, you'll wish this time back'. Now, while all of this is a hundred percent accurate, one of the things I wish I had been more prepared for is the constant lack of time to do anything but care for your child. And while caring for my child is and will remain my number one priority, it is the lack of sitting in stillness without anyone needing me, or I can let my freak flag fly for an extended period of time, that feels the most like loss these days. It is my guess that this is why this chapter of parenthood as I round the corner to having a two-year-old feels wobbly, with concern to identity. My identity as a mom, we'll get there, my identity as a business owner, that's where any extra time has to go, as it is my livelihood so that box gets a check by default, but my identity, the Annie Lauren Tevelin box, well, that's a bare box that's been hanging in timeout for months now. This separation from self was a slow burn in the oven versus a microwave, if you will. There's the preheat stage, I call that the newborn stage, the bake stage aka the new normal that comes as a result of copious systems put in place and eventually the burnout stage due to the constant consideration for everything at all times. This is the spinach feta quiche that comes as a result of the joy induced yet relentless, scary, and sometimes rageful journey that is motherhood. And while it tastes good 90% of the time, you wouldn't have cooked it differently, the 10% that burns the roof of your mouth really burns. So all of this to say, while of course I would want sleepless nights to be sleep filled and less vomit and poop on a minute by minute basis.
Annie Tevelin (03:05):
It is the lack of free time that has stood in the way of staying calm and present and connected to myself. And that my friends is where today's guest comes in, meet Josephine Atluri, author of the Mindfulness Journal for Parents to help caregivers transform and enrich their parent-child relationship and by default parent-self relationship. To wit, Josephine is an expert in meditation and mindfulness, helping thousands of people overcome adversity to find joy. A graduate of the University of Chicago, Josephine couples her business background with her meditation training to teach corporate mindfulness sessions. Plus, her experience creating her modern day family of seven children via in vitro fertilization, international adoption, and surrogacy, inspires her work as a highly sought after fertility and parenting mindfulness coach. Now, for those of you who want mojo, Josephine hosts a popular podcast, Responding to Life: Talking Health, Fertility & Parenthood.
Annie Tevelin (04:01):
And I'm laughing because I literally was just, I just had the pleasure of being on this podcast and she is a tremendous host. This is where Jo pulls inspiring responses to her guests life's challenges. Her mindfulness expertise has been featured in Motherly, mindbodygreen, The Bump, Prevention magazine, and Woman's Day, and for anyone wanting to take their mindfulness to the next level, Josephine offers private sessions and online mindfulness courses at jatluri.com. With so many books about how to parent she's always wanted, and I have always wanted, a tangible pen to paper prompt to help us put the hard stuff into practice, and thanks to Jo, this now exists. This journal embraces the good, the bad and the ugly. Acknowledges the moments you want to shame yourself, alongside helping you quiet the inner critic. And it just so happens that what you want for yourself, Josephine wants for you too. This is a tool to help you get closer to feeling how you want to feel so that you can live out your caregiving journey with grace, forgiveness, and consciousness. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome the incredible Jo Atluri to the OTR Zoom room today. Welcome Jo.
Josephine Atluri (05:05):
Okay. First, thank you for having me. This is, I'm so excited to be speaking with you today, Annie. And second, I feel like I need to take you with me and have you do this amazing intro. That was insane. I loved it. I was riveted. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't wait.
Annie Tevelin (05:24):
Oh my gosh. And I'm talking about you. You know what I mean? You, this is you. This is like what you, and I have this in my hand right now, and I know people listening can't actually see what I'm holding up, but I am holding up the journal. And it's obviously it's, it's prompts and practices to stay calm, present, and connected and listen on the, on the forefront these are all these big word, buzzwords that we're all trying to get to, right? We all want to stay calm. We all want to feel presence in our life. We all want to feel connected to the decisions and the lives that we're living, but it just seems so far away, you know? So it simply put like, why is this, why does this allow for the reader to get closer to that?
Josephine Atluri (06:04):
Great question. And, and so, you know, for people who don't know, I just describe mindfulness as, as an awareness. It's an awareness of yourself physically, emotionally, aware of your environment, and an awareness of how you're interacting with other people. So when you have this as a foundation providing you with this framework, then it touches upon all the different aspects of your life. And this book will help you to first, practice what mindfulness is just for yourself, not even with your children. It helps you tune in to what that means to be aware in this present moment versus thinking about things in the past, thinking about everything that you need to do in the future and all of the unknowns in the future. And once you've practiced that, then we take a moment to care for ourselves. That's what the next section is all about.
Josephine Atluri (07:00):
It's about, you know, oftentimes we as parents, as caregivers, we're giving to everyone else except for ourselves. And this gives us a chance to, to just pause and remember that we need to care for us so that we can then care best for other people. And then it's for us to transition into managing stress and anxiety. And then how you, after you've learned all these different strategies, how you can now translate that into your relationship with your children so that you can communicate mindfully with them, be an open listener, be empathetic and then by doing that, then you're consciously connecting with them. And then it wraps up by, much like as Annie saw on my podcast, talking about gratitude. To just reflect on all of the things that are happening in your life, that you can be appreciative of to call in more joy into your being and to experience.
Josephine Atluri (07:55):
And I structured the book so that it can be something that you don't necessarily have to do sequentially, you can just pick it up, and I'm hoping that you can find something that resonates with you in the moment because things happen, people have very different approaches to their parenthood, have different challenges and every day is different, so it's meant to be sort of very quick and easy to do. I didn't want it to be this big, you know, you pick up self-help books and they can be this really long process where you have to now you have to learn this new process. It takes you a really long time before you can actually see results. My hope is that you pick up the book and you read a prompt and immediately it's already changing how you're approaching, how you're looking at situations in your life.
Josephine Atluri (08:45):
It immediately gives you an exercise to try out that you can do as you're reading it, or while you're with your child while you're working and gives you just impactful and immediate results that will want you to keep trying more and want you to keep seeing and exploring and growing. So that's kind of my hope with the book. I think about it as speaking to a best friend as a mom, best friend, because we don't have time. We're short on time. And I find with my best friend that I'll just get straight to the point, like, okay, this is what's happening. This is my problem. What's your advice? What's your take on it? And then it's boom, boom, boom. We're done. And then it's like, okay, I gotta go, girl, I have this baby crying and that's it. And that's kind of the approach of the book.
Josephine Atluri (09:33):
You'll see if you pick it up, they're very short prompts straight to the point. I'm not going into too much about like, okay, well, let's talk more about inner critic. I mean, I can, but do you have the time to be learning all about it or do you just want me to ask you a question that will make you think about, okay, how does this apply in my own life? How am I being an inner critic to myself? What did I do yesterday or today that was that voice that I didn't need to have in my head. And how can I now shift it into a more positive voice, but at the same time, acknowledge that we all have those voices and it's okay. And to, you know, have self-compassion upon myself. And so that's what it is. You'll find it quick and relatable and approachable
Annie Tevelin (10:19):
And it's real prompts, right? It's real prompts for real people. And you know, like there isn't time. And to your point, these self-help books where you've got to, it's almost like this chronological journey or there's, you know, step A, gets you to step B, and then ultimately you kind of, you know, move in and grow with the book. This is a book where I can just open it up to any page and there's my prompt. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter if I, if I, if I'm on 64 and then yesterday I was on page 32 and tomorrow on page 17, I can open it up. I can do a body scan. I can open up another page. I can talk about emotional self-regulation. I open up another page it's a breathwork exercise. Some of them require pen to paper, some of them don't.
Annie Tevelin (10:59):
So it's like, if I'm not in the mood to write, or I don't have the time, or I can't find a pencil because my two year old ate the tops off of all of them, this is what real life is all about. So as a result, we're going to do breath work. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so real. And it comes from such a real journey, which is yours. And I loved that you used the word reflection because, you know, to my intro's point and to my parental struggle, that's the missing piece. I think, for so many parents and caregivers. It's where do you find the time that you used to have to just kind of daydream or free think or consider where you want X, Y, and Z to go, or what is on your list today? And I love that through this, I honestly think that just through this kind of mindfulness prompt, it will lead to bigger and more impactful reminders and moments that you'll savor.
Josephine Atluri (11:53):
Yeah. You know, I think I mentioned to you before, about how I approach mindfulness as a lifestyle. And, and what I mean by that is that you can have this awareness, this understanding of the present moment and being in it, and that it then translates into the, all the different parts of your life. So you can be mindful when you're eating and instead of just scarfing down the food, you're actually thinking about what's going in your body, how does it taste? And then you can be, as we talked about on my podcast, we can be mindful of our skincare routine, of our self-care, of what we're doing when we're at the, the bathroom sink and just thinking about it. It doesn't require - many people think that when I say mindfulness, I'm talking about sitting for 20 minutes to meditate or sitting for an hour...it can be, it certainly can, it has many benefits to it, but you can infuse it in all aspects of your day.
Josephine Atluri (12:52):
And this book in particular, it also touches upon, you know, being mindful as a parent. So you, I loved, you mentioned when we were talking before about just going down to the river and just witnessing its beauty. And when you were talking about that it brought me back to how I like to just go and stare at the ocean - I'm fortunate to live right next to it - and that brings me a sense of calm. So, you know, I invite people, I challenge people in my book, in this journal to, to experience these moments of mindfulness, of wonder, in various aspects of their life. But one of them, one of my favorites in the book is just reminding parents to watch and wonder. And it's great, especially with such as your child who's two, it's so much fun to just watch them at that age, because it's just so unadulterated and it's just pure joy.
Josephine Atluri (13:46):
And you can just take a moment to just watch them from afar, not even interacting with them, but just seeing how they interact with the world around them. You get so much joy from it because you see how happy they are, and that just sort of flows over to you. And so that's an example of how you can be mindful without necessarily like having to journal for an hour or having to meditate for an hour. It's right there in the moment with your child as a parent. And it's giving you and reminding you of the joys of parenthood and how you are, how you're now in this new phase of your life, which can be very chaotic, which can be very overwhelming as you go through the stages. And now that there are new challenges that you face with each progressing year, this gives you a moment to have at least one time in your day to really appreciate being your child's parent and witnessing the, the beauty of it.
Annie Tevelin (14:47):
That is so special. And I think, you know, to your point, when you're mindful of your own actions and yourself, then you're mindful on behalf of other people. So you see your child sitting on the ground, playing, maybe if you're burning the candle from both ends, you, you feel insecure about, oh, I'm not spending enough time with them. I'm going to run over and I'm going to, you know, not that you're interrupting, I'm sure your child will be very happy to play with you, but maybe that mindfulness allows you to look at your child, which this is speaking from personal experience and say, you know, Monte is, is in his own world right now, practicing independent play and enjoying his life and talking jibberish and like, maybe that's what he needs right now. And I think if I was moving faster, it would be more of a reactive response. You know, it, it wouldn't, it wouldn't allow me the time to consider which one it was. And that's why this is just a really good influence. I think that's what I've been trying to say about this journal is that like, if this is an influence in your life, then it will so obviously show up in other areas, which I love.
Josephine Atluri (15:54):
Yeah. No. And that is a great point about how it will influence different aspects of your life. And with two year olds, I just love that independent playtime. It's just my favorite. I love them when they're starting to just see the world in new ways. It just calls to mind, you know, all the, the benefits of being a parent and, and all the joys of it when oftentimes it just gets clouded in all of the obligations.
Annie Tevelin (16:22):
Okay. I gotta, we got to talk about your family. I mean here I am talking about one child and I was like, laughing about it on your podcast. I'm like, hi, I'm going to pull my hair out. And you're like, cool, i'm a family of seven. Okay. It's you and your partner then there's five children, yes?
Josephine Atluri (16:38):
Seven.
Annie Tevelin (16:38):
Sorry, seven children and you and you and your partner.
Josephine Atluri (16:43):
Yes.
Annie Tevelin (16:44):
So it's nine, there's nine people wandering around your home. Okay. Okay. And I have one child. I had my first husband, my first, my second husband, and then I have my dog and my child, and it is it's Barnum and Bailey, like, it is a complete circus here. So now I'm picturing nine humans all on different schedules and who all have kind of come into this container of love through all of these different modalities, right? There's in vitro fertilization, there's international adoption and there's surrogacy. It's all the things. Can you just walk me through your journey? Uh, however you want to define it or summarize it with how you came to have such a beautiful and modern day family of seven children.
Josephine Atluri (17:34):
Yep. Yeah, no, it's definitely chaotic. You know, when my husband and I got married, we knew that we'd have to go straight into IVF, in vitro fertilization, because of an illness that he had. So when we were ready, you know, to finally bite the bullet, we started at a reproductive center for a number of years - didn't work out - switched facilities and finally became pregnant with twins. We thought that now we were on the road to finally becoming parents only to lose the twins in the second trimester. And it was at that point that, you know, when you're doing any sort of assisted reproductive therapy, you're always on the go and it's, you're racing against time, the time being your biological clock, right? The age of your eggs. And I, I just kept going and going. It was cycle after cycle and never gave myself a chance to just pause.
Josephine Atluri (18:31):
And this is, you know, I didn't have the benefit of mindfulness back then. And I wish I did, which is why I'm so passionate about helping people right now with fertility mindfulness, but I didn't, and because of that loss, it was finally my time to grieve. And in that grieving process, I had to be honest with myself about what the next steps were when it finally came to that point. And then it was the first time where I had to admit that I was tired and it took a lot of courage to do that because I just, we wanted to be parents, but I, I just couldn't do it anymore. And, you know, I always had in the back of my mind, I knew that we'd have to explore other options if we wanted to have a bigger family. And so it was time to pull the, pull out a new approach.
Josephine Atluri (19:18):
And that's when we pivoted to international adoption. International, because, you know, with at least back then domestic, there was always the opportunity that the birth mother could pull out at the very last minute, and I just knew based off of what had happened, that I would not have the emotional strength to handle that. And so with international adoption the child's already born and of a certain age and so we went that route. We found a program in Kazakhstan that was fairly shorter, probably because you had to live out there for a month, which we had the time to do. And I was fortunate actually that we were able to do that because now at least, you know, my son now is 14. Now at least I can describe my experience there because as people who have adopted would know, you know, are your children are always asking for just any snippet of information about their upbringing, about their background and more oftentimes than not, we don't have that information.
Josephine Atluri (20:14):
So at least having something that I can tell him about, about his birth country, about the people there, you know, that gives him some comfort and me some comfort in being able to share that with him. And so, you know, we had him home and then finally became parents. And it was having that sort of weight lifted off your shoulders that made us feel like we could try again. So we switched to one last facility and became pregnant again with twins. It was not the pregnancy that I was hoping for because I was walking on eggshells the whole time. And I was also put on bed rest, but, successfully had twins and during that process we had a number of embryos that we froze. Every year you get a letter asking what do you want to do with these embryos?
Josephine Atluri (20:56):
And because we worked so hard to create them I couldn't let them go, but I knew that we could not carry again. So we, you know, surrogacy is quite expensive. So we saved up for five years to be able to pursue that option. And we partnered up with this amazing woman, I call her our angel and she carried twins for us, twin boys, who are now five. And then very recently we had a couple of embryos left and we just decided, let's see what happens. We rolled the dice, and now we have a newborn, well, they're two months old now, twin girls. So I have every set of twins you can have; every type of formation of twins and that's how, we're this insane household of nine. Our Christmas card this year will be the, you know, The Brady Bunch grid?
Annie Tevelin (21:48):
Yes.
Josephine Atluri (21:50):
That's what it's going to be.
Annie Tevelin (21:51):
So, okay. So the ages are, tell me the ages of all of them now.
Josephine Atluri (21:56):
Yep. A 14 year old son, a 12 year old boy, girl twins. Five-year-old boy twins and two month old girl twins.
Annie Tevelin (22:04):
Okay. And now we got to go with the names, cause I'm reminded of the scene in Goodwill Hunting where there's like seven brothers and they go through the like Timmy, Ricky, Robbie, Bobby. It's like, they go through the thing. So can you go through all seven names in the order that you would normally say them?
Josephine Atluri (22:18):
That's funny. Yeah. Now I just do initials. And that's how actually I did it in my book, in my inscription. So it's Jayden, Malayna Mateo, Deon, Dante Josephine, and Juliet.
Annie Tevelin (22:30):
Oh my gosh. It's just so, what's the, what is a day in the life? Like what happens? Right? Like what time do you wake up? What is the order of operations? What time do you go to sleep? Can you give us a sneak peek into life with nine?
Josephine Atluri (22:45):
I love this question because no one ever asked me this. So I begrudgingly wake up whatever time I start to hear things. I'm not a morning person. I'm a night person. That's just always been. And so I'll hear someone crying, I'll hear the twins waking up, the five-year-olds and then we get right to it. One of them is a morning person, my 12 year old. So he's already up along with my husband who works east coast hours. And we right now, because it's not school time, you know, it's more relaxed and I love it. I actually really loved being in quarantine because it took up so much time to like take the kids to school and do all the things. And here we, you know, I always look at the bright side of things and so that's just how I operate.
Josephine Atluri (23:34):
So looking at it, I know it was tough for many people, but quarantine for us really worked out well because I was given the gift of time and I was able to accomplish so much more and I was able to connect with the kiddos. But anyway going back to your question, everyone's eating and, and then they're off doing their things. The older ones, you know, they all have activities that they have to do. Some are online, some are in person, the five-year-olds, they were at home most of the time and now they will be starting school, so they're off doing, doing their stuff. They're getting very independent and so we're lucky to have a little backyard where they can build things out of cardboard, Amazon boxes and all the things. And then the little ones are just the littlest ones, the babies, are just really sleepy. So all the older kids are kind of waiting for them to do tricks.
Josephine Atluri (24:32):
But they're super cute. They're just, you know, that's kind of how that is. So everyone's kind of like doing their own thing. It doesn't ever seem like the noise level is, is loud, but I feel like I've gotten used to it. So maybe an outsider coming in would, it would feel chaotic to them, but I operate with that. I'm like, and that's how I've described myself, I'm that calm center in the eye of the storm and there's all of this chaos swirling around me. And that's, you know, how I talk about it with clients? Like, this is what will happen when you're able to like infuse mindfulness and meditation into your, into your life, because that's what you'll feel like. And so, yeah, so that's kind of like the day in the life and then everyone convenes for you'll see everyone doing dinner stuff and then little ones go to bed, the four little ones.
Josephine Atluri (25:20):
And then I get to spend time with my husband and the older kids. And then, you know, some days you have some days I have, well I have help all the time, but some days are just strictly for work. And then I'll have in pockets of time where I'm interacting with the kiddos. And that helps keep me, that's one of my tools in the book actually, for helping me not feel so overwhelmed and stressed, because I feel like part of the time that sort of anxiousness is not knowing when I'm able to get certain things done. So if I know I've set aside X amount of time to do this podcast and to catch up on emails in the morning, then I feel freer and I'm not so stressed out when I do, when I set aside X amount of time to hang out with my five-year-olds. And, and so that's, you know, that's kind of how I manage things and navigate through all of the chaos versus like saying that I control stuff because I don't really control stuff.
Annie Tevelin (26:19):
That's, that's the biggest, you know, gift. And I, and I honestly, with such a life pivot, as you have added more children to your life that relinquishing of control, I think is the hardest lesson to learn. It's I, I, you know, I want to do it right. I want to be the perfect mom. I want to make sure that everybody's good. This is where our identity is as parents and as mothers tend to fall by the wayside because we are wanting so desperately to care for our children in ways that are warranted. And honestly, some ways that are unwarranted, maybe like overkill. And so the fact that you, I love that you say like, there's this storm around me and my goal is to remain the calm. And that in itself is mindfulness is like, that made me breathe a sigh because it's, that should be the goal.
Annie Tevelin (27:07):
You know what I mean? This is such an unpredictable time. You've got children of all different ages and, and it's just, it really is an incredible thing that you have done for yourself and just for your family. Like, I feel like these kids are going to be so close and so just enmeshed in each other's lives in such a fun and funky way, like they're just going to have each other's backs and I mean, it begs the question did you come from a large family? Did your husband come from a large family?
Josephine Atluri (27:35):
I just have a younger brother. My husband has two older brothers, but I did. My mom came from a family of 10. And when I was little, they were all in Chicago where we grew up. And in fact, at a certain point in time, they all lived in like the same three flat. And so we had one apartment and then my grandmother and some of my younger aunts and uncles lived on the next one. So it was constantly, we were constantly together around this family. And so that's how I grew up conceiving the idea of family and wanting and craving that for me, like the best memories of my childhood were intertwined with all of these like big family interactions and so that's what I had wanted to replicate for myself and that was the same for my husband as well. And now when I said big family to myself, I wasn't imagining seven. It was at least more than two, but that's just how life happened.
Annie Tevelin (28:36):
Do you want more? Most people would say that's silly and I'm like, no, that's not a silly question, we're at seven you know what I mean? Like what's nine, what is 11 at this point? It's almost like we're in this, we're in this heat wave right now in Idaho and it's like, oh God, tomorrow is going to be 103, but then it's going to be 107 and I'm like, what's the difference, you know? Like both of those temperatures are keeping me inside so at a certain point, like seven or nine, it's just like, this is the new normal.
Josephine Atluri (29:05):
That's how I approach play dates when people are always like you know what, are you okay with having so and so over? I'm like, really? I won't even notice at this point.
Annie Tevelin (29:17):
You're like, are they okay watching themselves? Okay, then it's totally fine. I got to know, like, what are these grocery bills? I mean, that in itself is, are you cooking these dinners? Is this something where we're just going to Trader Joe's and we're making it easy? Like, what is, what is happening there?
Josephine Atluri (29:35):
Okay I love all these questions.
Annie Tevelin (29:37):
I'm getting into the real nitty gritty of parenthood right now.
Josephine Atluri (29:41):
You know, it's funny my three older ones were away - this is their first trip since quarantine - I sent them to Chicago to hang out with relatives, with their cousins. And we were walking to the farmer's market, it's always here on Sundays, and I had the four, the little four with me, and then talking to my husband, I'm like, oh yeah, we have to get this and this and then I thought wait a second no, they're not here. Usually the list is for the older three, we walked out of the farmer's market with barely anything. It was just a few bags, just a bag of stone fruit and that was it. And then the actual, like grocery, I usually order every Tuesday. It's just this immense thing that I have and just go through Instacart because I don't have time for the grocery store. And, I'm going through it and then I thought, oh, wait a second.
Josephine Atluri (30:28):
I was able to push it out more than half a week and I only bought groceries for right when they came home. And I thought, wow, this is crazy. And it sort of flash forwarded me to when they would be off to college in about five to six years. And I always try to tell people, just think, be in the moment, be present, and don't miss what's happening by thinking about what's in the future. Not to say that you can't, of course you can always set goals and think about the future to drive what's happening today, but in that moment, I had to think about, oh my God, when they're gone, this is what life is going to be like. So it made me appreciate, you know, when, especially when they came back, we missed them, but appreciate like all this chaos right now, you can look at it in a certain way. I love it. And anyway, to answer your question, it's a mix of stuff when we eat like weekends, we're good with like going out and stuff. It gives us something to do. And then during the week we do a mixture of cooking. Like I'll have my babysitter, like prep stuff.
Annie Tevelin (31:32):
That's amazing. I want to come over for dinner.
Josephine Atluri (31:38):
Although, you know, I did go to culinary school for two years. I ditched my consulting job and I had always wanted to be a cook, partially because of my upbringing - we're always cooking - there were just so many people to cook for and I just loved it. But now all of that is kind of, it's starting to, starting to, be beneficial. But definitely the ability to cook for masses, as I learned in cooking school is super helpful.
Annie Tevelin (32:03):
Absolutely. Oh my God. Yeah. You're like, that was just foreshadowing. So where does mindfulness show up for you? Right? Like you've got this whole day and I love, right, there's these, these kinds of automations that you've put in, like we're not doing food shopping anymore because the food shopping is only getting you to half of the week. Then my God, you're spending so much time at the grocery store. So you have these certain automations in place and God bless there's help and you're able to manage all of this, but where do you find your time? You know, obviously you're doing a podcast, you wrote a book like these things take a lot of time and discernment and patience. So where does Jo go when she needs a break? What are, what are your outlets? What does that look like?
Josephine Atluri (32:47):
Yeah. So in the beginning, uh, well, no, before the babies were born, I had a very steady practice of meditating in beginning of my day, like the bookends of your day in the morning, to be able to set your intentions and just, you know, set the course of your day in this positive way, and then at the end of the day to just reflect back, have gratitude about the day and shift over to this new sort of that you have your morning and work life and mom life and then you transition over to the evening where it's a different, it's a different vibe, it's a different speed. And so I use those as my times for myself. And then I always, you know, fitness has always been a big part of my life. So it used to be a very dedicated hour, like six days a week, and now because we're home, it's, it's tricky.
Josephine Atluri (33:36):
I've had to be very flexible in how things have evolved because of the quarantine. And that has taken, you know, that has forced me to just relinquish control and to be able to navigate things better, such that I had to infuse it with flexibility and things look different, but it's still getting done. So now it's half an hour. Maybe it's not, you know, the way it used to be, but it's still half an hour. And so that has always been my time that I have appreciated. Uh, and then back to that idea of being flexible. Now that I do have newborns, the whole idea of doing my two 20 minute meditation sessions just went out the door because of sleep deprivation and just trying to ease into a new schedule because having two kids, I had everything sort of working the way I needed it to when we were just five kids.
Josephine Atluri (34:33):
But now that we had the two and now that, you know, they have like eating every three hours and not sleeping through the night, it changed everything. So I had to be flexible in that those meditation sessions just were now not as regularly scheduled, but what I found and I think of everything as sort of like this experiment so that I can help my clients and help the people that are listening to me on a podcast and reading my stuff. What I found was that, yes, I was not able to do that 20 minute meditation session like I used to in the morning, but I can be flexible in finding ways during the day to have these moments of quietness, of stillness, of being mindful. And so what I started to do then, at least these first two months, was to do that when I would, when I would feed them, I wouldn't do it like in the room, like the family room, so I can keep an eye on all the other kiddos.
Josephine Atluri (35:28):
I would go into their nursery and it's super quiet there. And that would be my time to just breathe, just slow down and breathe. And it would be my time, like I would, I think about it now and I'd go into the sort of rocking chair and I would exhale. And I just have that sigh of like, okay, now I get to reset. Now I get to have this quiet time for me and the babies and I loved it. Yes, it wasn't that 20 minute meditation that I had grown accustomed to and, and lived for in the, in the morning and night. But now it was this time where I was connecting, not just with myself, but also with my children. Like I would look at them and have this connection and I would witness them breathing. I would witness how they were eating. And so it became this, like now this new type of mindfulness for myself, this new type of quiet time for me.
Josephine Atluri (36:23):
And so I think that in doing all of that and just being aware of how life evolves, I, you know, I've come to just really love sharing the fact that things change in life. It's important to be flexible. It's important to remember that we don't have control over everything and to try and not fight that battle, to be aware of those situations where you can let go a little bit and to be flexible in infusing mindfulness and awareness in present moments. Enjoy how your life is looking right now, because your life right now, isn't going to look the same way that it's going to look like in another year. And so if you're constantly trying to stick to the same way of doing things, if you're in this struggle, right. And so much of that anxiety and stress that we have of expectations of what life is supposed to look like, how our children are supposed to be, what we're supposed to be doing, all these supposed to, I should do this, I should do that, it gives us so much unnecessary stress. Whereas if we just approach it from this viewpoint of being mindfully aware that life is always changing and that we can be flexible and that we can let go of certain things, your life will change for you in that way, because you've, you're just releasing and letting go of this burden. It's such a burden to have all of these expectations and shoulds.
Annie Tevelin (37:53):
That's incredible. That is very, very beautiful. I appreciate the way that you articulated that because I think a lot of the time, you know, control is what keeps people functioning. Control is what allows for predictability. Control is what allows for there to be no surprises. And, you know, I'm going to get everything done on my to-do list. And if I can get here by this time, you know, it rules out any variabilities. It rules out the fact that you're going to get every red light or that this person's going to be 30 minutes late to the appointment and so then the rest of the day is, you know, off to hell in a hand basket. So, and also alongside that is the fear of what comes in its place when you, when you relinquish control. And now we're just out here just kind of absorbing life and taking things in stride, what comes in its place? And then that , and I think that that's maybe a question for you is what did you find came in its place worry? Or, you know, secret control like, oh God, I just, I really hope, I really hope it's good, like what takes that seat? I think that that could be a really good thing to share with people who, you know, even myself just thinking like, well, man, if when you give up control, then am I just flailing out there?
Josephine Atluri (39:08):
Yeah, no, that is a valid concern. And I love that you brought that up because it's true. We take comfort in having that control, right? Where we know that, okay, if we do certain things, this is what will happen and that gives us peace of mind. And it also reduces that anxiety. But at the same time, it's when we start to struggle with it, when things are starting to move and adjust in a way that we weren't able to factor in because life happens, right? That's when it, it doesn't work in our favor. And that's when we start to spiral because we're still trying to, to manage that and to like control those things versus being aware of the fact that we can't do it anymore. So to answer your question then in terms of what takes its place and sort of what happens, from my own experience and what I've heard from clients, is when you let go of something, when you realize that, okay, this, this is just going to happen and unfold as it does, you do have that, there's this openness, all of a sudden, right?
Josephine Atluri (40:17):
There's this unknown of what, how it's going to play out, but to, to sort of reign that back in and to make you feel like you're secure and supported, and that, that you'll be okay in this new openness, I always take it back to my breath and I always take it back to what do I know in this moment to be true? And that helps me with anxiety because I have a lot of anxiety issues, which is why that was one of the impetuses for getting into mindfulness, but I just slow down my breath first and foremost, because that is our way of shifting from that fight or flight from that triggered state into an area, a space of calm, because we're telling our brains that we're moving into a state of calm and we're not, you know, we're not being triggered. And so once I get my breath under control and I can physically feel the benefits happening in my body such as like a slower heartbeat, blood pressure is reducing, I'm not sweating anymore - once that breath is under control - then I remind myself of what things are true in this moment. Like, I, you know, the kids are okay, like work is going okay, everything's in control right now. My health, I have my health. I feel safe in this moment. So it really comes down to recognizing like, what do I have right now? Because I think when you're, to your point of like, when we let go of control, now there's this, all this unknown around us, that is what can build, bring up all this anxiety, but then really what you're doing is then you're just balancing out with the thing that, you know, to be true. And that kind of helps you stay grounded in the moment and helps you be able to accept, like what can unfold sort of that uncertainty.
Annie Tevelin (42:06):
Absolutely. I mean, do you ever think to yourself by having the journey that you have had, as a caregiver, as a parent, and kind of bringing this type of beautiful chaos into your life, that without it, you wouldn't have been taught these lessons? Like if you didn't need to relinquish control, if you didn't need to throw your cards up in the air and say, oh, wow, this is going to get crazy. Like I'm now in the car, bringing home newborn twin girls, like, here we go. You know, this is another, another ledge, another staircase that we're stepping onto that, you know, by, by having the chaos, by having the stress, by having these, this kind of overwhelmence, that it allowed you to take a step back and, and relinquish control? Like, do you ever think about who you would be without all of these children?
Josephine Atluri (42:59):
Oh yeah. No, all the time as you're talking and as you're putting it in that way, it reminded me of all the moments in, in this journey of ours that I've had to, I've had to sort of take that step back and realize that this is out of my hands. Like I there's nothing left for me to do so. It brought me back to that whole time in the beginning when we were trying to have children, and there's only so much you can do when you're going through IVF, you're kind of left at the hands of science and that's frustrating. So for so many of my fertility clients, it's just so unbelievably frustrating because you want to be able to help out with this goal, but there are only such and such things that you can do. And that was the first time, well, not really the first time, the first time is when, you know, my husband was sick and there was nothing I could do about it.
Josephine Atluri (43:44):
I can only be there to support him. So it was just from the beginning of our relationship together that we've always been, had these big moments where we had to realize that, okay, there's only X amount of things that I can do in this situation. And now I just, I just have to love and appreciate what we do have and lean in to this, so that we can sort of shift our attitudes about it and so that's what happened with every sort of moment in time. And I saw, before mindfulness, I had a point where I just sort of broke and this idea and this need for control in my life spiraled into an eating disorder - in my thirties - and I never had any eating disorder issues before. And it was out of the blue. I was training for a race and all of a sudden after the race was done, like I competed at a level that I wanted to and I achieved these, like beyond the goals that I was hoping and set for myself, that afterwards, I had to stay in control of that situation and that I didn't know how to do it. And all the previous experiences of like, not being able to control when I could have children finally caught up to me because I hadn't dealt with it. And then I became bulimic and it was all trying to control, like what I could with my body and my eating and once I became aware of that, it was, it was like, oh my God, this is what I had been dealing with or not dealing with. And this all came down to me trying to be able to control something. And it was at that point when I realized, yeah, things have to change, I have to be more aware. And that's when I started going into like, exploring what wellness looked like for me, not just the eating and the fitness, but also the mind, the like the mindset aspect of mental health and emotional health aspect of things. And that's, you know, eventually what led to the whole mindfulness and meditation sort of pieces of my life. But I don't know if I answered your question.
Annie Tevelin (45:42):
I love it; talk about riveted. I'm just like this, keep going, I mean, it's so relatable. Do you talk often about your eating disorder? Is it something that still kind of, you wear as, as this, as this badge of, of growth that, like you said, it took it, it took the bow to break in order for you to then see where you were picking up this controlling behavior. And then at a certain point, right? It's it becomes unmaintainable and then here you are left with nothing but your, your hopes for control. And, and it's like, you just have to let Jesus take the wheel, as they say, and just say, you know what, I'm on this earth, I'm doing the best that I can and this way isn't working. And so you, by default opened yourself up to a whole new life. I mean it's is like the prime pivot, everything that you have encountered in your life, you have, you have done something with it and turned something, turned that pain into real purpose. And, um, you are to be commended for that. And I'm so sorry for anything that you've ever had to suffer through or anything that was unsavory cause you truly, and I think we are all in agreement and have a heart of gold.
Josephine Atluri (46:55):
I do reflect upon it because that's what drove me to taking, you know, after I became trained in meditation and as a teacher, I started going down the route of corporate meditation because I worked in, as I mentioned before in consulting, and that's what I knew. And I knew that people in business needed like ways of releasing their stress while at work. And so that, that made sense to me. But the more often I did it and I started to talk about like my own fertility journey, it, it dawned upon me that people going through infertility like myself back then could really use mindfulness and meditation. And that's, that's when that whole experience with the bulemia really sort of gave me pause. And as I was reflecting upon it, I realized, you know, what if I had these strategies, if I had sort of this idea of placing importance on my mental and emotional wellbeing intact back then perhaps this whole bout into like an eating disorder may not have happened because at that point, that was just sort of my myself screaming out for help, you know?
Josephine Atluri (48:08):
And that's why I pivoted then to focusing on like fertility and parenting mindfulness, because people in that situation, they need an outlet. They need to understand, like there are strategies that will help you prioritize your wellbeing and then will help you realize, okay but yeah, you don't have control over this ability necessarily to have children, but there are other things that you quote unquote can control such as your breath and your mindset and your strategies for dealing with stress and anxiety. And so I always looked to that moment in time of dealing with that eating disorder as that pivotal moment in my life to help me realize this, this passion that I have for helping others. I've always had this desire to help others. It's just the different modalities in which it, you know, has come to be in the course of my life. In the beginning, it was through like people's life events when I was an event planner/caterer, and then it transitioned into people's wellness when I worked in like health and fitness.
Josephine Atluri (49:11):
And then now it's shifted over to, to mental wellness and their emotional wellbeing. And so I always look upon and, you know, we have that ability to do so when we look back at things in our lives, but in the moment, especially now I try to look at these moments of challenge, as opportunities to grow and learn from them, but yeah, like we always have that ability to look back in retrospect and see that, okay, it was because of that moment that we're now here, but with mindfulness and that ability to be aware, now I look at every moment as this opportunity to see what can be done with it. Not just for myself, but for others.
Annie Tevelin (49:51):
Yes. And what an amazing mother you are, and mother that you will continue to be with your life story. You know, if you're, if one of your daughters or sons talks about an eating disorder or talks about just control or you see that behavior in them, like you have lived so much of life, that you are able to relate and really be a gift to these children and I'm just so honored for this conversation and I'm so excited to see where this all goes. And I swear to God, if all of a sudden you're like, okay, well, we're bringing home nine. I'm having you back on the podcast. I'm having you back on the podcast. There's nothing you can say about it. I'm going to be like, okay, remember when we talked and you said, no, talk to me about the mindfulness that allowed for this to change.
Annie Tevelin (50:38):
I mean, it's like, you need a, you need a reality show. Not that anybody needs a reality show, but like John and Kate Plus Eight? That's you. That is you. Um, okay. Listen, I think we said this when you were interviewing me for your podcasts, that we could talk for hours and that is the absolute truth. I am so appreciative for this conversation. I'm so appreciative for your vulnerability and just the openness and telling your story and I just cannot wait to stay in touch and, and remain friends and just see how this all continues for you. Can you please tell, just kind of send us out and tell people how to follow you, how to get the journal? Where can we keep up with all things, Jo?
Josephine Atluri (51:21):
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity to share. You can find me on my website, which is jatluri.com on there, there are free video meditations and you can also purchase my book. Well, you can purchase it on Amazon, but it comes with an online companion course that will help guide you through the exercises. So you can find that at mindfulparentclass.com and you can also check me out on Instagram @JosephineRAtluri, where I share daily tidbits on how to infuse mindfulness into your life.
Annie Tevelin (51:52):
Amazing. So if you guys are driving, listening to this somewhere on the go, um, no need to write any of this down, just go to our show notes or scroll beyond, you know, the description on Apple Podcast or Spotify and you'll see all the links. We will be putting all the links, how to shop for the journal, how to keep up with Jo, visit her website, all the things. So, as always, if you love this podcast, please give us a five star rating or whatever star rating you think is necessary and leave us a review. We love the reviews. I send the reviews to the guests. I read the reviews. Sometimes I memorize the reviews and I tell them to myself when I need to pick me up, literally, if you can go to Apple Podcast or Spotify or Stitcher, wherever, and just leave a review, it means so, so much. So with that, I would like to say, thank you so much Josephine. And I hope that our paths cross one day in real life.
Josephine Atluri (52:43):
I would love that. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Annie. It's been so great speaking with you.
Annie Tevelin (52:48):
You're the best. All right, guys. Talk to you next week on Off the Record.