RTL Episode 45: Health Self-Advocacy with Kerrigan Behrens
RTL Episode 45: Health Self-Advocacy with Kerrigan Behrens
On today’s fertility episode, I am joined by Kerrigan Behrens. As Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Sagely Naturals, Kerrigan has successfully galvanized and accelerated marketplace acceptance of CBD as a natural and effective alternative for the products you would already find in your medicine cabinet.
Nearly a decade before founding Sagely, Kerrigan began her professional journey at Duke University. Following her graduation, she worked on Wall Street at UBS Securities, handling hedge fund prime brokerage sales, capital introduction, and the alignment of West Coast investors and hedge funds. Drawing on a lifelong passion for food, she transitioned to the restaurant industry, spearheading high-profile marketing initiatives for brands spanning Wolfgang Puck and Taco Bell - both in-house.
Kerrigan suffered from endometriosis and due to the pain was taking OTC pain relievers such as Advil regularly. She discovered CBD which helped to address the chronic pain that she was experiencing. Kerrigan also suffers from anxiety and used CBD to help contain her anxious feelings
Today we discuss:
Endometriosis
Infertility and Endometriosis
Treating Endometriosis pain with CBD
Basics of using CBD
To explore Sagely Naturals products, go to:
@sagelynaturals
Episode 45 Transcript
Josephine Atluri:
Welcome to responding to life, a podcast hosted by me, Josephine that Larry, do you ever feel like you could use some guidance when life throws you a curve ball? By listening to the narratives in this podcast, you will learn from other people's experiences and responses to challenging situations. So you can fast track the learning curve to get ahead. You're online.
Welcome to responding to life, a podcast where we talk about issues relating to health, fertility, and Parenthood. On today's episode, I am joined by Kerrigan barons as co-founder and co CEO of sagely naturals. Kerrigan has successfully galvanized and accelerated marketplace acceptance of CBD as a natural and effective alternative for the products you would already find in your medicine cabinet. Nearly a decade before founding sagely Kerrigan began her professional journey at Duke university. Following her graduation. She worked on wall street at UBS securities Henley, hedge fund prime, brokerage sales, capital introduction, and the alignment of West coast investors in hedge funds drawing on a lifelong passion for food. She transitioned to the restaurant industry spearheading high profile marketing initiatives for brands spanning Wolfgang puck and taco bell. Both in-house Kerrigan suffered from endometriosis and due to the pain was taking over the counter pain relievers, such as Advil regularly. She discovered CBD, which helped to address the chronic pain that she was experiencing. Keratin also suffers from anxiety and use CBD to help contain her anxious feelings. Welcome to the show Kerrigan. I've been so excited to have you on to talk with you about your fertility journey, as well as managing anxiety and your company sagely naturals. So thank you so much for joining me here today,
Kerrigan Behrens:
Joe. It's so nice to have a chance to catch up. Thank you for asking me to be on.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah, absolutely. So let's dive right in and we can start with your battle with endometriosis, which affects an estimated 200 million women worldwide. When were you diagnosed and how did it affect your daily life?
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah, well like most women with endometriosis, it took me many years to be diagnosed. I think I read somewhere that the average woman takes eight years to find a diagnosis for endometriosis and mine wasn't eight years, but, um, I had experienced symptoms from it since basically I got my period. So, um, the, the real problem started later in my life. Um, but you know, when I was young, um, until I finally went on birth control, I had terrible cramps. Um, I remember missing, you know, a day or two of school every month just because I was in so much pain. And, um, and you know, my, my doctor told me that having been being on birth control would really help with the cramps. Um, and so I know, you know, I think I was like 13 or 14 and I think my parents got in a big fight about whether or not it was okay for me to go on birth control at such a young age.
Um, my mom ended up winning. I went on birth control and I was really on it for most of my life. Um, and it really did help with the cramps. And then, uh, later in life, I started to just become more aware of just wanting to use natural products. Um, you know, it started with things I was eating and then, um, naturally just progressed into, you know, what else am I consuming? And it occurred to me that I, I wanted to see what it was like to be off of birth control. And so, you know, late in my twenties, I went off of birth control for the first time, since I was 13 or 14. And, um, not only did the cramps come back, but I also started experiencing this really bad, lower back pain. And I went initially to a orthopedic surgeon, uh, because I thought that I must have like a slipped disc or, um, you know, something wrong with my back.
And they did an MRI and they, um, told me, Oh, we do actually think that there's something wrong with your back. Why don't we give you steroid injections? So I had an epidural, I went under as steroid injections, didn't help at all. Um, and they said, Oh, well, that's normal. You know, sometimes people need them twice. So I did it again, no relief. And at that point, you know, I was starting to get a little bit suspicious about this doctor. Like really what's, what's actually wrong with me and why do they keep suggesting these shots if it's not helping? Um, well, this led me to just a crazy journey of seeing literally 14 different medical professionals. So I got second opinions from different orthopedic surgeons. And I heard from one that maybe I had arthritis in my hip and I heard, um, from another that, you know, nothing was wrong with me.
And I saw, uh, a rheumatologist to make sure that I didn't have, um, you know, rheumatoid arthritis. And then I saw PTs and I saw chiropractors and I went to acupuncture and I mean, literally every kind of doctor that you could imagine before I finally had, um, a really comprehensive MRI done and they found a cyst in my ovary and the doctor was like, this is probably not what you were looking for, but this is an endometrioma it's assessed, that's caused by endometriosis. And, um, you know, and I said, well, what's endometriosis. And the doctor said, well, you know, it's a disease that affects women and it's probably going to affect your fertility and it can cause chronic pain. And, you know, you should really go talk to your gynecologist to get more information. And I remember just being in my car at the time and just like breaking down, crying, um, you know, in part, because I was, you know, it's pretty jarring to get news, um, that you have a disease that you have a disease that's going, gonna potentially cause infertility.
Um, but also because I felt like God, I've just been on this wild goose chase and I don't feel like, um, you know, it was worth the time. And so in retrospect, um, I, you know, probably shouldn't have started with the orthopedic surgeon. Um, what I learned is that, you know, specialists are going to probably look for something that's specialized. And so, you know, starting more, um, more broad would have been helpful, but, um, at least at that point I had a diagnosis. And, um, so yeah, from the time that I started, uh, feeling the chronic pain in my lower back to the time that I got the endometriosis diagnosis was probably three years.
Josephine Atluri:
Oh my goodness. That is insane. And it's hard to, you know, I appreciate the fact that you're able to look back and, and think about, um, you know, what should have been done differently. And, and also the fact that you advocated for yourself so much and went out and sought, you know, try to find solutions and answers to what was happening to you. Um, but it's hard to not, if you don't know what's happening to ask to know what questions to ask. So with your endometriosis, what is the protocol then for dealing with SIS? Do you just have them there? Do you have them removed? Like what sort of the next steps then once you found out that you did have this diagnosis,
Kerrigan Behrens:
It totally depends. Um, I ended up, so this was all happening, um, right around the same time that I was starting to think about having kids. Um, and so, you know, the, the lucky thing is that I went into the process of getting pregnant, um, with this knowledge. And, and even though it was devastating to get this news, even though I obviously wish that I didn't have endometriosis, um, I did have a doctor say to me, after I got this diagnosis that I probably would have trouble getting pregnant. And that is really powerful information. Um, because the fortunate thing is there are things that you can do about it. Um, I think the hardest thing for a lot of women when they're having trouble getting pregnant is just, you know, not understanding why, and then not knowing what to do about it. Um, I, I was fortunate in that my, I went to see a specialist, um, a gynecologist, but one who, who deals with, um, different issues like on a material basis.
Um, and he basically said, you know, you more than anyone, you know, cause I was already in my early, early thirties. So he's like, you know, you're already have a little, a little bit of a time issue here, but more than that, um, when you have an assess like you do, and when you have, um, what seems like pretty progressed disease, because I wouldn't have had the SIS it not, then you need to be really proactive about your fertility. So, you know, my husband and I, um, maybe would've waited a little bit longer and you know, I had my business sagely naturals, and I think when you run a business, there's never really a good time to have kids. Um, I think for a lot of people feels like that too. Like there's never really the perfect time to have kids, but yeah, we probably would have waited another year or two.
And, and when I got this news from my doctor, it was a real wake up call, like, okay, like I shouldn't be waiting. Um, and then the other thing that he said, which was really helpful was he, he gave me a timetable and he said, you know, you can go and try naturally. Um, there's no harm in that, but, um, don't try naturally for too long because you are going to, um, have essentially, you know, these benefits from getting a surgery. And, and that was another big thing that came out of the meeting was he said, um, you, you probably should have surgery given you want to have children. Um, but you could try naturally and then get surgery or you could get surgery and then try naturally. And either way, if it doesn't work for you within six months, you should turn to, um, you know, an REI reproductive endocrinology. Um, what does the I stand for? I'm just forgetting,
Josephine Atluri:
I think an infertility and infertility specialist.
Kerrigan Behrens:
Um, so I, you know, I had been dealing with all this pain and I thought I'm just going to get the surgery proactively because I want to not be in as much pain anymore. And if it also means that I have some benefits for my fertility process, then you know, all the better. Um, so surgery for me was an obvious choice because of this system that I have and because of the pain and because I, um, knew that I wanted to get pregnant, um, I think for a lot of women who have endometriosis, they, they never get surgery. And, and the other difficult thing is if you don't have a cyst, it can be almost impossible to diagnose, um, without actually having someone do laparoscopy and like look inside of your uterus to see if these cells are there. Um, so that's why it's so hard to get diagnoses for endometriosis because it's, it's not typically visible from a standard, um, you know, exam. Um, but that, that was my thought process was I just wanted to be as proactive as I possibly could. And, um, and then I was told that the surgery would have benefits for, for fertility. So I thought, well, maybe I can try to deal with the pain and the infertility in one go. Um, but the surgery was no joke. It was, it was definitely a lot, uh, more, more invasive than I was expecting it to be,
Josephine Atluri:
I can't imagine. And then, so then you had the surgery and at that point, did you then go straight into IVF or did you follow what the doctor had advised of just trying on your own for a little bit?
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah, I definitely followed the doctor's advice. I mean, I really didn't want to have to go through, um, fertility if I treatments, if I didn't have to. Um, and as he predicted, unfortunately, you know, in spite of our best efforts, it didn't, it didn't happen naturally. So, um, I met with, uh, an REI and, um, someone, you know, who, uh, a couple of dear friends had recommended and I told him exactly what my gynecologist had said. And he, his advice was exactly what my gynecologist's was, which is, you know, for endometriosis that it would be a waste of time to try go admit or to try IUI that for me, IVF, um, you know, for the, for the problem that I have, that IVF would be the right path to follow. And, um, so, you know, I'm glad that I had had time to process that information because, um, had I heard that for the first time, you know, as we were trying to get pregnant really would have scared me.
Um, obviously IVF is the most invasive of all of the fertility options and it, you know, has an effect on your body and for someone who didn't even want to be on birth control in the first place, you know, I, I gave thought to the fact that I was going to be like supercharging my body with hormones, but ultimately, um, I, I didn't want to deal with processes that I had two doctors tell me wouldn't work. So, um, so yeah, we actually went straight into IVF and, um, it, it took another six months, um, but ended up getting pregnant, um, through IVF. So I, I feel like we got actually very good advice. And, um, and one thing that I feel really fortunate about is that we, we did have, I think, in the grand scheme of things for fertility problems, like a pretty short journey. Now, again, it wouldn't have been so short, had I not known going into the process that I had an immature analysis, but because I did it allowed us to, um, to, to go through the process more quickly, I think, than normal,
Josephine Atluri:
Right? Yeah, no, that's, um, that's quite everyone's journey and everyone's entry point into, you know, their path to Parenthood is so different. And, um, yeah, I totally hear you on, on looking at that diagnosis of endometriosis at the time that you did to be at least helpful in that you were able to sort of get the help you need and then fast track yourself into the process of, of trying to have kids via IVF. Um, because that's one thing that, you know, we as well, my husband and I, we went straight into IVF and it's, um, it's, I, I can hear it's so difficult with my own sort of clients and fertility mindfulness when they have to go through all these different steps that it takes to get to a point where they can finally do something about it must be so frustrating. Um,
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah, my, my sister in law had told me, um, you know, she spent a year doing Clomid and then a year doing IUI. And I think the tough thing is you keep thinking, well, maybe the next round and maybe the next round. And, um, for me, the, the most helpful thing in the entire process was just setting deadlines. Like I will be okay with this process so long as you know, it, like, I am willing to do this this many times, or I am willing to try this for this long. And after that, I'm going to just feel comfortable moving on to whatever that next step is. Um, because I could see how you could very easily just say, okay, one more, try one more try. Um, and that's where I think like the, the roller coaster just gets like too much to handle.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah, absolutely. Having that, having to go through one process and then go to the next, like, how do you know when is the right time to finally to bite the bullet and pivot? You know, I like your idea of setting deadlines. It gives it, it gives you a sense of control and it gives you a plan to follow. And a lot of times people feel comforted in knowing that they have one control, but two, also a plan to sort of boost them up and to look forward to if things aren't working out the way that they had hoped.
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah. That's exactly it, because this whole, the truth is we don't have control over any of this
Josephine Atluri:
Right now, but you want
Kerrigan Behrens:
To feel like you have as much control as you can. And so, yeah, I, I think that was actually very empowering. Um, I couldn't control the outcome and, but I could control at least like the, the process and what I was agreeing to and for how long, so.
Josephine Atluri:
Right. Yeah. And any little bit helps right. In your mind and how you're handling things and how you're responding to those challenges. Um, so you, you know, going through IVF on its own, it's tough, but you were doing so concurrently with the start of your new business, sagely naturals, is that correct? And if so, like, how did you manage to, to do both of those difficult journeys at the same time?
Kerrigan Behrens:
Well, I actually don't know if I would have started sagely, had I not dealt with the pain from the endometriosis. So, um, if you're looking for silver linings, that that is another one. I mean, the, the chronic pain that I was in from the endometriosis was what, um, opened up my eyes to CBD. So sagely naturals is a, a wellness brand using, um, CBD and other plant-based botanicals to help address things like pain and stress, um, through natural, you know, alternatives to products that you find in your medicine cabinet. And, uh, I was using a lot of products, you know, I was using Advil every day and I had tried every single topical pain reliever and I had taken Vicodin and it was, um, my first experience trying CBD that, that actually ultimately led to us starting sagely, naturals. Um, I, you know, found it to be so, um, helpful and just didn't have the same side effects that I was used to from all the other things that I was trying.
So that, that was a silver lining. Um, but you know, dealing with chronic pain when you're starting a business and then dealing with infertility, um, when you're running a startup is, is definitely, um, a lot when, when the startup is seemingly all consuming. I mean, you could theoretically spend every minute of the day working on your business and still not getting everything done. Um, so I, it might sound ridiculous, but I, before I, um, started working with this doctor for the fertility, um, I asked the two friends who had recommended him, whether his appointments were on time. And, um, and since then I've actually started doing that with every doctor I see, which is just finding out like how on time their office runs, because as you know, like you, I can't even count the number of visits that I made to his office. And so to have, you know, what's supposed to be a half hour visit or an hour visit turned into a two hour visit.
It's just not manageable. And, um, I actually was also seeing this acupuncturist who I just adored, but I was easily running at least half an hour to an hour late after every single one of my appointments with him. And, you know, I was supposed to be like, de-stressing in these appointments. And instead I was just like more and more anxious because I'm watching like the clock run down and I'm thinking about, you know, okay, I'm going to have to reschedule this meeting and then I'm going to have to move this meeting. And so, um, the fact that my reproductive endocrinology and infertility specialist was someone whose office ran really smoothly, made the experience so much better. Um, and, you know, back to the control thing, like since I knew, um, you know, how many appointments I was going to need a week, I just was able to schedule around it. And, um, so yeah, I highly recommend that. And I've since done that with my pediatrician, like when I did my intake with her, I asked how often she was running late versus on time. And she was like, Oh, I hate being late. And so I was like, okay,
Josephine Atluri:
That's actually a really, I've not heard anyone, uh, use that as a strategy, but that totally makes sense if you're trying to juggle so many things and, you know, um, and just trying to be realistic about what you can fit in and right. You basically live at the fertility specialist, um, any between the visits and all the testing and all of that, which is why I had to ask how you're able to do it with starting up a new business. Cause it just must've been, I mean, everything nonstop altogether. Um, and you already mentioned that great sort of advice that you had about setting deadlines, but I was wondering if you had anything else that you can impart upon the audience about, you know, another takeaway or piece of advice for someone who's trying to conceive, especially someone who has a history of endometriosis.
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah, I would say, um, just to be as proactive as you can. Um, I think that starting out with a plan is the best thing that you can do. And for endometriosis specifically, it really doesn't make sense to do Clomid or IUI because the problem is, um, that you end up having these sort of cobwebs in your reproductive system. And so, um, the sperm is unable to reach the egg. And so understanding the nature of the problem can really help you figure out the best way to attack it. Um, you know, even with IUI, the sperms still doesn't get close enough to the egg, to, to fix the problems. So for different kinds of fertility, I think it absolutely makes sense to start with Clomid and then move on to IUI. Um, just given, you know, a lot of women have success with those, um, procedures and it's a lot less invasive and significantly less expensive. Um, but yeah, I think that if you at least can understand the problem, you can better attack the problem.
Josephine Atluri:
No, that's no, that's super great advice. And thank you for sharing that Carrigan. I'd like to pivot over to anxiety, you know, before we wrap things up, because he'd been quite open about how you managed anxiety with the use of your CBD products. And I'd love to hear what exactly is in your personal toolkit for managing stress and anxiety.
Kerrigan Behrens:
There's so many things, it depends on the day what actually works. Um, I think that, um, yeah, you really have to have a lot of things in your toolkit because maybe one day, you know, going for a walk around the block is enough to help me take a deep breath and, and, you know, regain a small sense of calm. Um, my husband always reminds me to look at the sky when I go for a walk because I'm very apt to just, you know, stare at the sidewalk instead and not really feel like I'm outside, which is part of the main benefit of, of being on the walk in the first place. But, um, you know, I also see a therapist I'm also on medication depending on how severe the anxiety is. Um, but then, you know, I try to do as much as I can with out the intervention of medications.
So I do like the class by Taryn to me. Um, I'm actually not that big into exercising, you know, in part, because I still unfortunately deal a little bit with this, uh, lower back pain. But, um, what I love about her class is that it, it really integrates like breath work into body movement and, um, breath work is also incredibly impactful. Um, I find that that can have the same impact for me as like, you know, the best therapy session I could imagine, um, before COVID I was doing yoga, um, and, and going for hikes. Um, so really it's a combination. Um, I also prioritize sleep and, you know, even with, um, a baby, even with a business, um, I, I make it a point to get, you know, at least eight hours of sleep a night. Um, we basically said when we had the baby, like if we can do one thing right, as parents, um, it will be to get our daughter sleep trained as quickly as we can.
And, you know, we're going to listen to the pediatrician and the pediatrician says she's not ready. Like, we'll wait, but as soon as humanly possible, we will sleep, train her. And, um, and, and we did as soon as humanly possible. Um, and I, I won't even say how quickly we did it, cause I don't want to make other parents feel self-conscious or be judged, but it was very early. And, um, and, and, you know, I'm very grateful for that to this day. So yeah, a lot of things in my anxiety toolkit, um, but you know, sometimes a walk won't do it and, and that's when I'll, I'll switch to, to my sagely common centered capsules. And if that doesn't do it, then, um, then you know, I, if I need to, I will take part of the Xanax. Like that's sort of my like emergency, um, medication. And even just knowing that I have that oftentimes is enough to, to calm me down, but I would much, much more, uh, likely take, take my common center, go for a walk or do some breath work. Um, yeah. And make sure I'm getting good sleep
Josephine Atluri:
Well, I love it. And I, I had to ask the founder of a wellness company, what her, you know, her self-care practices were. I was just love to hear if there's something else that I should be adding into my own sort of practices. So thank you for sharing that with us Kerrigan,
Kerrigan Behrens:
You have to be honest, which is that, you know, there is no magic bullet and yeah. And I, even though I really, really am passionate about using natural when I can, I'm also never going to, I'm not an extremist and I believe in doing what works. So, um, yeah, I think it always just has to be some combination of, of a bunch of things.
Josephine Atluri:
And, you know, I love, I didn't mention yet, but I just love your products and I've always used the relief and recovery and the common centered, but I just recently purchased the, um, the drift and dream actually just put it on. I rolled it on like right while you were talking, because I love the scent, even though it's, I think it's supposed to be for sleeping, but I just, I love, I love all your products. I mean, honestly, they have helped me through all of this madness of the pandemic. No joke. I'm like constantly rubbing and I mean, it's just great, but for people who are listening, who've never, you know, forayed into CBD. Is there one or two things that they should keep in mind when they start looking for products or start using products?
Kerrigan Behrens:
Yeah, definitely. But first, thank you so much, Joe, that just really makes my day to hear you say that. And then I'm just humbled that the products have helped. Um, especially during this crazy time, um, for CBD, it is still a little bit of the wild West out there. And, you know, I, I heard the other day that there are over 3000 CBD brands and, you know, we started in 2015 when, um, fewer than 1% of Americans had even heard of CBD. So the, the space has changed quite a bit since we started. But I think what hasn't changed is that, um, there's a real need for quality in this category because there is a wide variety, there are products that, um, you know, are, are dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's, um, like ours. And then there are some products that are, you know, not doing the adequate amount of testing.
And the way that you can tell that, um, is, is two, there are two, um, easy ways to do that. The first is, um, to, to find it in a trustworthy retail location. So if you have, um, you know, a sprouts near you, or, um, actually now, you know, even CVS or Rite aid, um, we're sold in all of those stores, by the way. Um, like they're doing an incredible amount of diligence in order to, to feel comfortable selling CBD products and they're requiring, you know, lots of testing and they're checking the tests. And so if you find it in a store like that, you should feel good about buying those products. Um, if you're buying it online, it's a little bit harder and you need to do your homework, which is to say that you should look for, um, for testing. Um, so, you know, we have, um, cos certificates of analysis available on our site, um, for you to, to look them up.
And, um, we quadruple test our products and we look for things, um, like potency so that, you know, you actually can feel comfortable knowing that when you buy one of our products, when we say that the, you know, capsules, 10 milligrams, that you're actually getting 10 milligrams, um, those things are important in this category because it is pretty new and it's not as regulated as it should be yet. Um, the next thing to know is just that there still requires some experimentation. Um, I need more CBD than my husband, and I'm not as tall as he is and I weigh less than he does. So there isn't yet a perfect formula to say, okay, you Joe are using it for stress and you're this height and this weight, and therefore you need this many milligrams a day. Um, the, the fact is like your body might process it differently than mine.
And so the best thing for you to do is just to, to start with, let's say, 10 milligrams a day and see how that feels. Um, you know, for topical, it's a little bit less important, but if you're taking like a tincture or if you're taking capsules, um, start with 10 milligrams, see how that feels. If you're not getting the effects that you want up it to 20. Um, and, and that should allow you within, you know, the first couple of weeks to figure out the right dosage for you, but it is not something that I would expect to, um, you know, cure you overnight. It is a supplement, meaning like it actually needs time to build up in your system for you to really experience the benefits.
Josephine Atluri:
Oh, that was tremendous. And I'm sure that it'll be very helpful for the listeners who have not tried it before and who were kind of on the fence as to how to go about it, to be really helpful to them. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. And I always like to end the podcast by pivoting us to positivity by having my guests and with one gratitude that they have for today.
Kerrigan Behrens:
Well, I think I would have been grateful for this even before COVID, but now I'm even more grateful, which is, um, which is childcare. So I always expected to have it, um, had my baby in March, right as the pandemic was just starting to feel real. And, um, and so my husband and I didn't have childcare for the first, um, six months of her life. And it was a real challenge to say the least. And I know probably, you know, a lot of the people listening were in the same situation or, or still are because of, of schools. Um, we ended up finally finding a daycare, um, that we felt really good about. And, and so she's done it in the daycare for the last few months and I just, I'm so grateful as much as I love my daughter. I'm just very, very grateful to have people to look after her so that I can, I can actually get my work done and feel like a human outside of just being a mom.
Josephine Atluri:
Oh, that is wonderful. I'm so glad that, you know, um, you brought that up because it's essential to have like a good support system and to know what works best for your sort of mental and emotional and physical wellbeing. So, um, thank you for sharing that gratitude with us. And I loved hearing her by the way, in the background and seeing, I didn't know, I love baby noises. I've had kids that love baby noises, and I'm seeing her pictures on your Instagram. She is adorable just like squishy, squishy, squishy baby. So congratulations. And I'll be sure to share in the episode notes how the audience can learn more about spatial naturals and go on there on your website to purchase it. But thank you again so much for joining me today. Kerrigan, it's nice to hear your voice after all this time, after all this like COVID time. So thank you so much for sharing your story,
Kerrigan Behrens:
Joe, thank you for having me and I can't wait until things are a little normalized again, so that I can have you back doing some meditations with us. And, um, just bringing that sense of calm, you know, son's medication that you do.
Oh, I would love that. Thank you again. Thanks Joe.
Josephine Atluri:
Thank you so much for joining me for today's episode with Kerrigan. I hope you found her story inspirational and her advice as helpful as I did for more information on how to purchase sagely natural products, please visit their website, which will be listed in the episode summary. Be sure to listen to
The past episodes of responding to life by hopping on my website, j@learning.com where you'll find numerous episodes covering topics on wellness and fertility and Parenthood. Thank you for listening to responding to life a podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode and would like to receive a bi-monthly newsletter with an exclusive and brief video meditation, along with wellness tips and deals, please go to www dot, responding to life podcast.com and sign up for the newsletter by entering your email address in the Papa in there, you'll also learn my seven step process and how to meditate like a pro. So you can stress less and live more joyfully. If you enjoyed the show and invite you to share it with your friends and leave a rating and review on whatever podcast outlet. And I look forward to sharing another inspirational story with you real soon.