RTL Episode 44: Fighting Infertility with Samantha busch
RTL Episode 44: Fighting Infertility with Samantha Busch
On today's fertility episode, I am joined by Samantha Busch. Samantha is a wife, mother, entrepreneur, lifestyle blogger, IVF advocate, philanthropist and co-owner of a professional race team. As a successful "boss babe," Samantha is driven to empower women of all ages and backgrounds to live their best lives - with confidence and poise.
Samantha has written a book entitled, "Fighting Infertility" where she shares her battle with infertility, including her IVF experience, miscarriage, a failed cycle, and the overwhelming grief and depression that surrounded these obstacles. With this memoir, her aim is to break the silence and stigma that surround the infertility community. Her book releases March 30, 2021 and can be pre purchased on her website.
Today, Samantha and I will discuss:
- Her struggles to get pregnant and her IVF journey
- Miscarriage, failed transfers & her recovery process
- Navigating marriage after loss
- Surrogacy journey
To learn more about Samantha Busch go to:
IG - @samanthabusch
Twitter- @samanthabusch
Episode 44 Transcript
Josephine Atluri:
Welcome to responding to life. A podcast where we talk about issues relating to health, fertility, and Parenthood. On today's episode, I am joined by Samantha Busch. Samantha is a wife, mother entrepreneur, lifestyle blogger, IVF advocate, philanthropists, and co-owner of a professional race team. As a successful boss, babe, Samantha is driven to empower women of all ages and backgrounds to live their best lives with confidence and poise. Samantha has written a book entitled, fighting infertility, where she shares her battle with infertility, including her IVF experience miscarriage, a failed cycle, and the overwhelming grief and depression that's around these obstacles with this memoir, her aim is to break the silence and stigma that's around the infertility community. Her book releases March 30th and can be pre-purchased and the links listed in the episode. Summary. Welcome to the show, Samantha. I have been so excited to speak with you today to talk about you and your fertility journey. Thank you so much for being here.
Samantha Busch:
Thanks so much for having me on, I appreciate it as well.
Josephine Atluri:
And thank you for sending me an early copy of your book. It was such a moving memoir that really hit home with me, and I'm excited to talk about it in our conversation today. So I think the best way for us to begin is to hear about your struggles, trying to get pregnant and how you eventually progressed on to IVF.
Samantha Busch:
Sure. So I met my husband. I was a junior in college, actually. Um, I was working at a race track. He was, you know, he's a NASCAR driver. I didn't know anything about racing at the time we kind of crossed paths, um, hit it off, kept it really casual. Obviously he was racing. I was in school. Um, did the long distance thing for a while. And then when I graduated, I eventually moved to Charlotte. We got married, you know, everything. It was just, we were young and living life and traveling with the racing circuit and everything was great. And then after a few years, you know, all of our friends started having kids and we're like, okay, I think, you know, work that time in our lives that we're ready. And I just remember the excitement and anticipation and, you know, it's just like a whole new chapter opening up in front of you with like endless possibilities.
Samantha Busch:
And you know, the first few months, obviously I'm sure like everybody else out there it's fun. It's exciting. It was passionate. And then as the months, you know, after, you know, month after month of failed pregnancy tests, it's like, okay, hang on. What's going on? I mean, we were mid twenties, very healthy, no underlying conditions, nothing had ever come up for either of us that we would have any problems. Um, and I just remember around six, seven months calling my OB GYN and being like, Hey, you know, I really feel like we should have been pregnant by now. And I got the standard, Oh, we don't even worry about it till a year. Just keep trying. Um, and then I remember getting the angulation kids and reading everything online and just doing everything that we could by eight, nine, 10 months and just not seeing a positive test and being so frustrated and so confused.
And this was, gosh, what was it? 2014. And, and I felt like it's not like it was now, like people didn't as openly talk about it. Um, you know, obviously Twitter was around. I feel like Instagram, wasn't what it was. And, and so I just didn't feel like there was a lot of resources. And then when I would search on the internet, it was very, you know, doom and gloom. And so I was just very spun out and I found myself just getting more and more depressed and, you know, I'm, I'm a very bubbly, outgoing social person. And I found myself just really becoming more of a homebody, not really wanting to see as many people because everybody was always like, when you guys didn't have kids, how come you don't have babies? Are you trying what's happening? Why isn't it working? What's wrong? Um, and it got very overwhelming.
Um, and so I would say right around a year, maybe a little after, I, I remember just having a whole slew of like things that were happening. I was breaking out. My hair was falling out in clumps. Um, one month I just had this horrendous period that I was like, I must this, this must be what I'm miscarriage is like, like something must've happened. And so I called my OB GYN again and still at that time, they, I don't want to say it. I just felt like I wasn't being heard. Um, and so I went in and I was like, please, can we please do testing? Like, I don't want to try anymore. It's been over a year. I need some answers, just very frustrated. Like I felt like I was throwing in the towel. Like I can't, you know, it's funny I say that now.
Cause you know, we're so many years down this path now that I, I felt that like at that time that a year was just, it felt like a decade. Right. Um, finally got the OSU and run some tests quickly found out I had PCs, um, had never heard of it before. Didn't understand, you know, what exactly it was. I remember going home and just doing a whole deep dive of research and learning about it and, and all these things. And so they put me on Clomid right away. Um, also a number of years ago, I don't think that the medical field looked at males the way that they do now. Um, so they put me on Clomid without ever testing my husband to see if he would have been the issue as well. It was kind of like you have PCOS, this is why you're not getting pregnant.
Clomid will do the trick. Um, so as I'm sure you read about in the book, Clomid made me, I'm pretty sure certifiably. Um, I've never experienced such a roller coaster of emotions and after five cycles, so five months on Columbia and we still weren't pregnant. Um, I feel like my husband and family sat in and they're like, okay, we have to have an intervention. Like you can't go on living like this. Like I would cry at the drop of a hat, just, you know, it was, it was just very overwhelming. And so I went back to the OB GYN and they were basically like, well, you know, we don't think there's anything else we could do for you. You should probably look into our fertility clinic. And that's when we finally found the reach clinic in Charlotte went there, you know, they ran a bunch of tests on me. They ran a bunch of tests on Kyle and we found out that not only did I have PCs, but that he had a low sperm count in morphology. So they were like, IUI is won't even work for you guys. We suggest going straight to IVF. So sorry for that very long-winded answer. But that's how we got dive yet.
Josephine Atluri:
Gotcha. No, that it's always, you know, everyone's, um, entry point is so different, so it's nice to hear all the different stories of how it happens. And, um, and it was nice also to hear that, you know, it took some time, but I feel like a lot of people who are trying to conceive have a hard time advocating for themselves and knowing when to like finally finally seek help, first of all. But then once you're under someone's care to really keep pushing those buttons of like, what's next? What can, what else can we do? And it sounded like you were able to do that for yourself, which, um, you know, hopefully inspires other people. And so amid all the pressures of being in the spotlight because of your husband Kyle's racing career, how did you deal with the stress of trying to conceive and all of the triggers that you must have had to endure? Because it's hard enough for people to deal with triggers from friends and family, but I can imagine the spiral of negativity that you must have experienced due to all these other outside pressures.
Samantha Busch:
Yeah. I mean, I feel like from back then when we were just starting to go through IVF through now, I've learned so much with, you know, in terms of therapy and healing and coping and grieving and everything. But back then, I, you know, I just felt lost. I felt like I was flailing. I just felt like we were grasping at straws. And it was really until we went to the reach clinic and I, I loved my doctor there. It's so interesting. He's a very, he's nice, but he's like very matter of fact, you know, just to the point, um, and that was kind of what I needed was somebody who was like, look, this is what's wrong with you. This is what's wrong with your husband. This is the best course of action that we think. Um, and I really felt like, even though I was overwhelmed, like, okay, now we're going to start IVF.
This is something I don't really know about. I have to research it. We have to learn this isn't, you know what we had envisioned when we started trying to have a family, but okay. I have something now that I can hold on to that there's a protocol there's things that I can do. And it really was like a lifeline at that point when I had felt like for, gosh, I mean, by the time we got there, it had been 16, 17 months, you know, of just this free-fall of emotions and discouragement and, and just having to go out, as you said in public and pretend everything was fine and happy. And just, it was like in the middle of the NASCAR baby boom, on top of it, all, everybody was having kids and constantly like, well, what's wrong? Why aren't you guys having kids? I do not want kids.
It's something wrong with your marriage what's happening. And I wasn't comfortable at that time. Um, I really feel like it's been this amazing community of, you know, other women going through this, that over the years have helped me find my voice and become an advocate for myself and for others that at that time, I just didn't feel like this whole community was there yet. And I think, you know, cause it's social media was evolving and, and apps were evolving and there's nowadays just so much more interaction and connection that I feel like as we talk about the rest of our journey, it has these women, these strangers on Instagram have now become friends and have helped me so much. But at that time, it wasn't until we got the VF diagnosis that I finally felt like I had something concrete to hold onto.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah it is amazing the fertility community that has, has bubbled up through social media and then all these subsequent apps and things like that. It's something definitely that I wish I had back when I was trying to conceive because it feels so lonely and it's hard to go through the process all by yourself. You're just stuck in your head and you're right. It is amazing how these seemingly strangers on Instagram can suddenly be your strength of support. And, um, and it, you know, you're part of that conversation of opening it up and making it okay for people to talk about it. And so, you know, we, we all appreciate that from you. You went on to, um, go through IVF and, and then birthed your beautiful son Brexton, who is so handsome.
Yeah. It just, it, it brings a smile to my face. Every time I can see that people had, you know, their happy ending with the birth of a child, but then after that point, you decided to continue to grow your family and you began IVF again. And at that point you experienced a miscarriage. I'm so sorry for your loss, Samantha, you know, the pain stays with us forever. I know from losing my own twins in my second trimester that it just it's almost can haunt you at random times. So my listeners have heard my story of my grief process, which is like feeling the full expression of your feelings and taking the time and then finding hope to move on. So I'd love for you to share with us how you dealt with the grief and loss of your daughter.
Samantha Busch:
Yeah. Um, and I'm also, you know, I, I read your story and I'm so sorry. There's, it's, it's interesting that you say like that hope to move on because you're right. Like there are days that, you know, you feel, I don't want to ever say like you're pathic, so you're never past it. There's always a piece missing, but then you're right. Like something will trigger you and it'll just bring those emotions all back on at like the most random times. Um, but to answer your question. So we decided to go through IVF again, when Braxton, uh, you know, he was potty trained, he was sleeping. We felt like we were in a good place. And I was so confident. And I guess now looking back very naive because when we went through IVF the first time, I mean, partially because my PCs, we retrieved 34 eggs, 15 fertilized, eight of them ended up making it.
We had, you know, we put the first embryo Brexton in and he took, and I had a healthy pregnancy. And so to me, there was no reason that that wasn't going to happen again. And so for our second round, I was like, you know what, Kyle, I'm going to document everything. I want people who are going to go on this journey to see, to feel, to hear it all so that they're not as nervous about going into it. I was like, I want to show them the shots and the embryo transfer and the medicines. And like just this really real account of what happens. That's not doom and gloom, but that's like, Hey, look, I hate needles. If I could do this, you could do this. If I could do this, you know, being on a plane four days out of the week, like here's how you can do it if you're traveling or if you're working or if you have kids, like, I just really wanted to have this really awesome, positive, like empowering account of it.
And so we started filming everything and documenting it all. And we went, we did the embryo transfer and, um, you know, Braxton was so excited. We were very open and honest with him. And then, you know, we did the transfer waited the 12 days, got the positive test. And, and since we had been sharing everything, we told people right away, like, yes, we're pregnant. Everything's great. Um, we announced it on Thanksgiving. We did a photo shoot that day. Brexton had his big brother's shirt on and we were in front of the Christmas tree and we made our Christmas cards to basically be, you know, our announcement just on cloud nine. You know, like, this is great. This was, we felt good that, you know, people are like, Oh, thanks for sharing all this. Like, I've learned so much, I'm not nervous anymore. And we're like, yes, this is what God called us to do.
Like, you know, obviously besides our foundation like this, this is what we're meant to do with this platform is to just make the topic of IVF normalized and talked about and people to feel good. And, um, it was just a few days after we announced I was playing with Braxton and I started bleeding really bad. And, um, I go into a lot of detail of it in the book, but, you know, we ended up going to the doctor and it was what was a threatened miscarriage where, um, you know, she was still in there. She was much smaller than they had hoped, but my cervix was closed. So they're like, we can't, you know, your numbers have still gone up since the last time. So we can't really tell you. And so then I had to wait 48 hours, which happened to put us in Las Vegas for the NASCAR championship banquet weekend.
Um, and I've had a lot of people ask me like, well, why did you go? And the thought of being home by myself and without Kyle was like my rock through all of this, just like terrified me. You know, I, I just, I was like, I can't, I can't like, we're going to go. It's going to be okay. I read online like threatened miscarriages half the time they work out fine. Like, I'm just gonna, this is gonna be part of our story, right? Like, I'm going to tell her when she's little, how, you know, she was always, you know, scaring me from day one and, and was strong and, and a fighter and all these things. And so we went for the blood test and the thing was, I had stopped bleeding. Like the day I left the office, after I got checked within an hour after I had blood, there was nothing, nothing at all.
And I was like, that has to be a good sign. So, you know, we went out to Vegas, we did blood work. Um, get ready for the banquet, no call, no call, no call, no call. And I'm like, Oh, I'd like to know something. Right. So literally they're like pinning the last of my hair and I'm getting, you know, and I'm, I'm almost ready. It's like the red carpet and 20 minutes. And the call comes in and I'm like, okay, you know, this, this is going to be good. It's all gonna work out and get the call. And, you know, she was like, we're sorry to tell you, like, your numbers have gone down. Um, if, if you haven't experienced any bleeding, like you'll finish essentially your miscarriage naturally in the next, you know, upcoming days. And I was like, no, no, that's not true.
That's not true. She's a fighter. You're like, your line is this, isn't this isn't true. This cannot be happening. Like, this is just not how it's, it's not how our story goes. It's not how it's going to happen. And I just shut down. Um, like I calmly finished getting ready and I told Kyle, and it just, it wasn't registering. Like he tried to hug me and I was like, no, I'm fine. Don't hug me. Like, they're wrong? Like they're gonna come back and it's gonna, it's, it's fine. It isn't true. And I went through the whole evening, like we did the red carpet and I was, you know, people were like, congratulations. It's just like, thank you. And it just, I, I was not, my, my brain was like, no, we're not accepting this information. And went through the whole night, you know, just kind of like, like stone, no emotion whatsoever.
I can't even really tell you the banquet at all. I was there, but I wasn't, if that makes sense. Um, and then I just, you know, went to bed that night and woke up in the mill and I just lost it. Like, it all came crashing in at once. And from there I felt, you know, and then the days to come, I finished miscarrying, which was just overwhelming knowing and having to like, almost go through it twice, if that makes sense. Um, and it was just so devastating. And then, you know, for the days and the weeks to come, I don't know a better word to say, then you're just, you're in a rut. Like, I didn't want to go do anything. I didn't really want to talk to anyone. I would literally spend all of my energy, trying to be a good mom and like just pour myself into attempting everyday to pretend to be a normal person.
When in the inside, like everything was just falling apart. Like I just couldn't grasp. How does it happen? Why does that happen? You know, obviously I was blaming myself, like what, what did I do wrong? What analyzing everything I had done leading up to that event and what I could have done differently. And I just remember calling the nurses constantly, like, you know, I walked up the stairs, holding a laundry basket. Do you think that's what it was, was the basket. And they're like, no, it wasn't, it wasn't like these things happen. And I was like, how it was a genetically tested embryo, how, like, it just blew my mind and it was really hard. And it was a really dark time. And even though there would be glimmers of hope or days that seem more normal. Um, at times if I found myself being happy about something, I felt like it was a betrayal to her to be happy. Um, I just was having trouble really. I don't want to say getting over it cause that's, you don't get over it, but processing it in grieving. And it was just a really dark times.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah, no, I remember what you described that it is a really dark time and having to cope with all of those mixed emotions of guilt and then remorse, and then that same idea of I'm trying to find the answers. You know, it was similar to my experience where you're just asking, like, was it this? Or was it that just to find some answer to that way, you know, perhaps you don't replicate it in the future and also to give you closure, but the not knowing it eats you up inside. And so I'm curious in terms of your grief process, how did it differ from your husband's?
Samantha Busch:
So that is one thing that I share openly in the book is how a husband and wives grief process can be so different and the huge strain that it can put on you. Um, so obviously I felt like in the beginning, Kyle is very supportive and loving and just, you know, nurturing and understood all those emotions that I was feeling. And I even felt this way. It's friends and family. Like they were so supportive and they were there for me, but as time went on and they were moving on and I couldn't, that's when I saw a lot of conflict, like I would be confused when I was hurting so much and Kyle seemed fine. And so, you know, we would talk about it and he's like, well, it happened. There's nothing we can do. Like you have to get over it. And just how almost easy it seemed for him just made me so upset.
Um, and I know what he was saying, like no amount of questioning what I did or, or tears or anything was gonna change what was happening, but when he was able to move on and I wasn't, it just caused so much friction. And, you know, I detail it a lot in the book, but it was a really hard and bad time in our marriage. It was, um, you know, we had to start seeing a therapist and there was times when we were like, I don't know if we're gonna make it through this because I was so hurt and couldn't cope and, and heal. And he had, was already healed from it. And he was mad at me for not being, you know, caught up to his level. I was mad at him for not still being back in the trenches with me. And it was just that underlying tension then caused us to fight about everything and anything.
Um, and it just spun out of control. And it really took, um, church and its therapist and working on ourselves and our marriage and learning that we grieve different. And that just because he might be in one place and I might be in another, there's no timeline. Um, and just figuring out how to support each other in the right ways and things to say to each other or not to say to each other. And, and we learned a lot from a therapist on just how to talk with each other. Like, I would love to mention this in the podcast because it's one thing that I felt was a really big benefit to our marriage. So I would love, and maybe this is why I love talking on podcasts. I would love to sit with Kyle and just talk and talk and talk and vent and, and tell him how I was feeling.
Tell him, well, you know, all the things I was feeling all the time about the miscarriage, right? Like over and over and over, because it was like a release of all the sadness in me and for him, he was like, I don't want to constantly relive this. Like it hurts. And I don't, you know, like guys held your hand through it, but now we have to move forward. And so our therapist was like, look, we're going to set a 10 or 15 minute timer and a certain number of days a week that you both agree on right here right now. And when you need to talk, Sam, you are going to put this timer on Kyle, you're going to put down your phone. You're not going to roll your eyes. You're not going to do the, I can't believe we have to talk about this.
And you're going to give her 10 minutes and you're going to be supportive and you're going to talk back and Sam, you're going to release everything. But when that timer goes off, like it's done and you can't mope. You can't be sad. Like you got it out and now you have to move forward. And, and it took some of that. It took that compromise and it took both of us getting back on the same page to then be able to really heal and grieve and process. And also not only from our marriage, but the outpouring of support from the social community in this infertility sisterhood was what helped me. You know, I didn't necessarily always feel comfortable talking to my family members or my close friends about maybe how I thought in our marriage or the sadness I felt inside me, but I could talk to another woman who had experienced a miscarriage and felt truly heard and validated.
And then they helped me to be like, Hey, here's some things you could do to cope. Here's some things that you could do, you know, to want to try again and all that. So it was, it was a really hard time, but I will say we've come out of it so much stronger for our marriage. And I feel so much stronger as a woman. Um, you know, they say, you know, it, doesn't obviously it's the whole thing. It doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And in this case it did. And I have to say during COVID, you know, you never know why God does certain things, but there was a lot of women that I was able to, I don't want to say help, but walk with them through their miscarriage during a time under quarantine, when their husbands weren't allowed in there and different things. And, you know, obviously I not happy ever that I went through a miscarriage, but now I'm able to take that knowledge and to take all the pain and the suffering and the hard times, and be able to help other women navigate their journeys a little bit easier.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah. It's wonderful to be able to pay it forward to those who are going through the experience right now. And I love the, I love that suggestion or that tip that you used for your own relationship. I think it's so great to be able to come to a compromise like that because you're right. You know, we are all coming from different places when it comes to trying to become parents. And then over time, you know, we all change and our expectations change and then just how we deal with things changes. And so you're dealing with all of those things. And then when you hit, like it's such a major tragedy or anything else in your journey can really take a toll and put a strain on the relationship. So I feel like that was such a great way of honoring how you both felt and how you could help each other heal, um, in, in the midst of such a tragedy.
So thank you, Samantha, for sharing that with us. And, and so after you, um, you experienced this loss, you then tried IVF again, one more time. Um, I'm curious to hear how you were able to go through that process after having had a miscarriage and how you dealt with, you know, any triggers that you may have felt during that time, because I know a lot of people can say insensitive things. I hear often from people that I'm helping as well, that they'll hear things like, well, you, at least you already have a child or, you know, so many things that people will say that negates or diminished how we're feeling in our experience. Um, so if you could share a little bit about this next foray into IVF today.
Samantha Busch:
Yes. So when we went through our third round of IVF, I was ready. I was confident where we were in our marriage and where I was, you know, in my healing process. Um, but I knew for my own mental health, I didn't want to share with anybody. Um, and I felt like a hypocrite almost because I'm so like, Hey, let's be open. Let's be this community, but I had to take a step back. And, and this is what I tell people too, you have to do what's right for you. Um, and so I, at that time couldn't handle, you know, like I didn't want to hear from my friends, like, Oh, you got it this time. It's all going to be okay. You know, everything's in, God's time this, you got it. Like, I didn't want any of those triggers statements. Right. Like, so I didn't have anybody.
We didn't tell our parents, we didn't talk our friends, no one. Um, and it was just him and I, and I really felt like at that time, that's what I needed. I needed that privacy and that kind of shelter. Um, and we went through the third round and we did the transfer and, um, you know, I just thought again, I let my hopes get up there and we, cause they were like, Oh, the embryos, great. You know, your uterus looks great. The transfer went well. And this was right at the time of the end of Kyle season. Um, they had just sold my book. So I was like, wow, okay. My book sold on a Thursday, Kyle won his second championship on a Sunday. We had transferred just that Tuesday previously. And so, you know, I was like, this is it. Like we went through our darkest time and this is kind of like our fairytale now.
And I just felt pregnant. I remember we were in New York for Kyle's like championship media tour and my boobs hurt and I could smell everything like so vividly. And I let all that hope flood in. And I was like, this is it. Like you came through the hardest year of your life. And you know, here we go. Um, and I remember sitting there, like in the championship, uh, when he won the race and, and him and I were like, whispering like, Oh, we're actually a family of four, but nobody knows. And it was like just such a complete one 80 from where we had been. And, and so I remember again, we were getting ready for another banquet and, um, I'm like, I don't know what it is with us and baby news and banquets, but, um, it's, it's us. And so we get a call a few hours before this banquet that we were going to, and they were like, um, we, you know, it was a failed cycle.
We ran the test twice. We have no idea, you know, why everything looks so great. And I just was dumbfounded. I couldn't believe it. Um, you know, here, we had gone from Braxton who took right away, great pregnancy to miscarriage now, a failed cycle. And I was just like, how, you know, what, how, why, what is happening? Like you keep telling, like what, um, and so, you know, I will say though, knowing what I learned after the miscarriage right away, I found a therapist that specialized in infertility started doing some, um, like zoom type therapy sessions. Um, in order to heal, didn't have that same amount of self-blame this time had some coping mechanism tools in my bag now, um, it still hurt. I was still very upset, still, you know, overwhelmed, but I felt like all of that therapy and all, and, and, you know, we've found a good church. All those things helped me and, and a good, obviously again, community of women, um, I don't wanna say move on, but helped me to cope with, with the failed cycle. And so then we sat down with the doctors and they were like, well, we think that you should try a surrogate because, you know, basically of the decline of what seemed to be happening. So it was a decline from our pregnancy to miscarriage failed cycle. So then he moved on to a surrogate.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah. And so, you know, you know, for our last set of twins, we saved up for years to finally afford sir, to see, because after, um, delivering our middle set of twins, I was no longer able to carry. And even though I had decided to move forward with it, I found it really difficult throughout the process to cope with my decision, because I felt like there, there are all these emotions swirling around about like, I was a failure for not being able to carry my own children. And, and then I felt like it was a secret that I had to keep, because I didn't want to share that we had decided to go this route. And you know, I don't, I haven't spoken to many women. Who've gone the service you were out before. So I'm curious to hear about how you made the decision to go ahead and pursue surrogacy and how you deal with the emotions that come with that decision.
Samantha Busch:
Yeah. I would love, actually, this is something I really haven't talked about much yet. Um, and after you've read the book, you see, it stops right. As we're finding a surrogate. And now since then, there has been, I'm saying I would love to write a second book because I was like trying to find someone to carry your child is an experience, no other, um, so it was very interesting at first, what happened was I started talking about it with new, know a group of friends, like, Hey, the doctor said we have to get a surrogate. At first, when I went home, I was obviously devastated that I couldn't carry again. Um, but I was like, okay, if this is the way to make Brexton a big brother, like, this is what we have to do. There's nothing I can really do about it. Like we're going to do this.
So I was like all in and I was talking to some friends about it and a friend of mine's sister ended up hearing about it and she had always wanted to be a surrogate. And so we knew each other, but we weren't close, but I felt like it was like the right amount of distance. Right. And so we met, we talked about it, our husbands met, like we did all the things. We all felt good about it. Um, and then she went for her medical and she had a black floppy in tubes. So they were like, she can't be your surrogate unless she gets her tube removed. And it's like, I can't ask her to do that. You know what I mean? That's a big surgery in a procedure. And so when that didn't work out, then I kind of resigned myself to finding an agency.
And that in itself is hard. Um, you know, you're trusting a stranger to essentially find a stranger to carry your child. And, um, it was really difficult to process. It was, I was okay when I was like, okay, I kind of know this person, you know? Um, and so we worked with an agency and it was really hard because they were like, we don't really have a lot of candidates right now. And they had one and we were just polar opposites on a lot of stuff that we viewed, um, about pregnancy and about delivery. And she was a very nice woman and it was hard because my agency was basically like, well, it's her, or we don't know when you'll find someone. And I just was like, I, I can't like I can't. And so then I just started reaching out to people and I was like, Hey, if you've ever heard of anybody.
And so I had a friend who was a doula who actually had a friend and she was just wonderful. But now when you're going to meet these people, it's like, you feel like you're on this blind date. Like you analyze what you say, what you wear, what you order. I was just, I remember being like in panic, like, please let this woman like me. Right. Um, and so we went through all the things our families met and then on her end, she was like, it's just not the right time. So it was like, almost felt like another failed cycle, you know? And, and I respect her for being honest about that. Um, cause that's a big decision to do for somebody, you know, that's your body that you're going to carry somebody's child. And so after kind of those three let downs, I was like, I'm D I, I don't know what to do.
You know, the agency doesn't have anybody, we don't have anybody. And then along came this lady and she sent me this message and called the agency and did all the things that her and I met. And it was just this instant. Like I knew I was like, she's the one. Um, when I had went into it, I was like, Oh, I think it's, you know, I, I see all these other couples with their surrogates and they seem like friends. And that seems so odd because they don't know this person. And instantly when I met her, it was like, I was at peace and our kids were playing and her and I were hanging out and it just felt so natural and perfect in every way. She was just the most amazing, calm, wonderful, generous, loving, sweet woman I've ever met. Um, and because of her and because of our relationship, it made it a lot easier to accept that I wasn't going to carry.
Um, and so we went forward and we did the transfer and, you know, we are also excited. She had two healthy babies, perfect pregnancies. Um, I remember being in the parking lot and we exchanged gifts before we walked in and, and um, like I got her comfy clothes, you know, and stuff for the kids or her 12 days. And she got me a, um, a shirt about, you know, surrogacy and, and it said, um, not growing, but still glowing. And it was just like, perfect, wonderful. Um, you know, we were, we did the transfers exciting. And then we took a test at home the day before she was supposed to go to the clinic. Cause I just wanted that. I just wanted to be us. You know what I mean? Like, um, and so we took the test and it was negative and I just, all of us just like stared at each other, like it has to be wrong.
Right. It has to be wrong. Um, and then the next day, obviously she went in for the formal blood work and it was negative. And I just remember then it was an interesting thing. We were standing in the kitchen, it was her, myself and my husband. And I was like, no, it's okay. Like I, I'm not gonna cry. Like, it's fine. You know, cause I didn't want her to feel bad. And then she just walked out and I just remember like losing it hysterically, like, okay, how now you have the perfect uterus with these genetically, does it embryos? Like what in the world is happening? Um, and so that was really hard. And I would say though, like to this day, her and I still text on a weekly basis, we've hung out after like I've made a friend out of this, you know, if anything, which is wonderful.
Um, and now we are back to egg retrieval because we went for, we talked to our doctor and then we went for a second opinion. And everybody seems to think that even though our embryos were tested and even though on paper, they looked good. Um, I will say, you know, how they grade the embryos. Um, so Brexton and the first two girls were the highest grade and then the next girl was graded like a little bit lower, which I don't know how those gradings work. And I think it's so hard to even say like, one of your embryos is graded lower than another. Um, scientifically, like that's hard for me to wrap my head around. Um, but they were like, given the rest of your embryos are even a lower grade, if you will. And that we now have two proven uteruses that have both had not even, not even like didn't even stick. Um, they're like we have to think that something has happened over time. Do your embryos. So after consulting with two doctors, we made the really hard decision to try another clinic. Just, no, we exhausted all options. And that is where we are today.
Josephine Atluri:
That's, that's amazing. You know, thank you so much for sharing. It's one thing to be able to reflect and then share after the fact, but it's a whole other story to be able to share in real time what's happening because it's just, it's so raw and it you're in the thick of it. And that's what I'm much admiration of the people on Instagram and social media who are able to do that for the benefit of others. So thank you for sharing about your current journey with your surrogate. And it was, it was so great to hear how you were able to form a relationship with her. You know, I always, whenever I talk about my surrogate, it was always so awkward in the beginning because there are no norms of how you're supposed to interact with someone like that because, you know, it's, it's a fairly new sort of relationship.
But, um, every time I look at, you know, I ended up, I ended up taking care of her. Like she was almost one of my own children and we have since become friends and it's tough to have to support them emotionally as well and yourself when you go through like a failed cycle and then have to progress on. And, um, but I wish you so much luck as you continue on and just your strength and the hopefulness that you have in your voice, you can hear it. And it's really just, it's so inspiring Samantha. So before we end our conversation, yeah.
Samantha Busch:
Oh, I was going to say I, can I jump in and add something about surrogacy? Yeah, sure. Is that okay? So what I wanted to say about surrogacy is I think for a lot of women that I've talked to is you're, there's this component of gratefulness mixed with jealousy in the beginning, and it's very difficult. Right. And, um, then you're going essentially on these blind dates to meet them. And there was literally one time I had like hives, I was so nervous and I remember, um, at dinner ordering a glass of wine and then she didn't and I was like, Oh my God, she's gonna think I'm an alcoholic. Like I can't, like, I just, just was in panic about everything, you know? And it's so hard to accept that. And then, you know, I I've heard of people and they're like, Oh, you just treat it like a business transaction.
Like you don't become friends. And that's it. That's how I was going into it as like, he's just like going to house maybe for nine months and then it's going to be my baby. But when you find the right surrogate, there's this connection. And like all of that fades away, I feel like, and I just feel really blessed and really at ease with the whole process, because I feel like I found just this like angel and for some people too, who are going through this right now, like there might be a match that comes up and in your heart, if you know that there's just too many red flags or it's not the right fit, like you have to be okay saying no. Um, and I I'm glad I did. And, and look, it might've worked out and, and who knows what would have happened with the other person, but I guess I'm saying is it's tricky to navigate.
It's so much different than any other relationship. Um, but it sounds like you had the same experience when you find that right person. So it was like when you find your, your partner, your spouse, right? Like, you're like, that's my person. And that's how I felt about her. And when I went into it, I was so closed that idea. I was like, look, we're just gonna be like business. And, and we're, you know, and now, and we're so close and I'm so happy that that's how our journey progressed and like allowing yourself to be open to that. Um, it's just, I don't know. There's so much more about surrogacy that I feel like, because it's not as common that there's not a lot of advice on how to navigate it yet. And, and so that would be my hope coming up is to at least try to offer some of that support and understanding and preparation for what that might feel like.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah, no, that is, um, I'm so glad that you brought all of that up because, um, you're right. It is very tricky and there isn't a lot of information about it because it is fairly new. And, and I mean, it has been around for a while, but in terms of people speaking up about it, it's relatively new. And as you were talking about it, it brought me back to when I was looking through all the applications and it was weird at the time because you're right. You'll know it in your gut when you've found that person. But it's hard during the process because you feel like if you pass up on someone, then you've passed up and you still have to wait and you're giving up an opportunity because you're being so nitpicky about no, I was looking at things like grammar, or I was looking at like responses to different questions and it made me feel bad.
And at the time, like how can I be so picky and judgmental about this? But at the end of the day, this is a partnership that you're going into that's of great magnitude. And, and so it is important when you go through that process to take it easy on yourself and not be so judgmental on oneself about your process, because at the end of the day, it really is such a big decision to make that you need to feel good about it. You know, I'm glad that you're able to get that feeling in your own gut about the surrogate that you chose.
Samantha Busch:
Yeah. She was amazing. And, um, you know, right now we're going through, I'm on day four of my STEM meds already for another egg retrieval. Um, and they think that I, they don't see a reason why I can't try again to carry myself. Um, and so that was an interesting curve ball, right? Like I had spent so much time kind of praying and mentally preparing that, okay, I'm not going to carry again and being okay with it to now them being like, well, I mean, we've looked at your uterus and we think that you can do it. And now it's like, I'm a little bit nervous, you know? And, but I want to try again, but is it, I don't know, there's, there's a lot of emotions, so I'm just taking it one step at a time, one day at a time. And like first let's see what happens during egg retrieval, and then we'll go from there.
Josephine Atluri:
Yeah. No, that's the best way. Absolutely. And I wish you so much luck. I'm sending you all these baby fives over the zoom call. So, you know, in your book you have a whole section on advice and you broke it out into you taking care of oneself and managing relationships. And you've already given us so many words of wisdom. Um, I'm gonna kind of leave it as a teaser so that people can purchase your book and see what all of those fantastic recommendations are because I love them. And, you know, in your epilogue, you wrote this moving letter to yourself and it really struck a chord with me because it left me feeling so inspired. And in there you mentioned gratitude at the end of all of my podcasts. I always ask my guests to share one gratitude for the day. So I'd love for you to share yours with us, Samantha,
Samantha Busch:
You know, I would say this has been a long journey and a difficult one filled with a lot of emotions and a lot of tears and sorrow, but I wouldn't change it because through it, I've obviously had the most amazing son. I feel like my husband is my true partner. Like we've had to endure this together and it's made us a stronger team. We started a foundation because of it, which I know is like my life calling. And, you know, I know that God gave me this big, loud voice. That's not easily embarrassed and that I could go out and tell every nitty gritty details so that hopefully somebody listening who has to go through this can gain some insight and either learn from my mistakes or, you know, find a tip that will help make their journey easier. So I'm grateful for this crazy journey and everything that it's brought.
Josephine Atluri:
I love that. And I feel the same way, and I'm glad that it connected us in this, in this manner so that we can amplify, um, a message and be an open up the conversation on infertility and help de-stigmatize it and normalize these issues. And to end in the spirit of giving receiving, I'd love for you to share with the audience, how they can connect with you in particular with the release of your new book and your amazing foundation.
Samantha Busch:
Thank you. Yes. So everything's on social. My handle is @samanthabusch. Um, and then our foundation is at bundle of joy fund and there there's all the links to the book, um, on my website to Samanthabusch.com, there's all the different ways that you can purchase it. Rather it's a regular copy or an autograph copy, and there's also links to the foundation and what we do. And we're really hoping this year, despite all of the challenges in the world that our foundation will just continue to grow. And hopefully we can expand to even more clinics here
Josephine Atluri:
In the future. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Samantha. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the responding to life podcast. For more info on today's guest, check out the episode summary. I'd love to connect with you more. So be sure to check out my website, responding to life podcast.com for links to previous episodes, articles I've written and interviews I've done on mindfulness, meditation and fertility and parenting. You'll also find free video meditations on my site and on my YouTube channel Josephine that worry meditation. If you'd like to book a one-on-one session with me, you can do so on the website. You can also follow me on Instagram @josephineratluri for daily inspiration and mindfulness tips. Finally, I'd love for you to join my Facebook groups, to connect with a supportive community and receive greater insight on how to incorporate mindfulness into your life. Check out the mindful parenting group with Josephine Atluri or the empowering your fertility group. Thanks again for tuning in today. I look forward to sharing more conversations with you on how to respond to life in a more mindful