RTL Episode 53: Healing After Pregnancy Loss with Kim Hooper and Meredith Resnick

RTL Episode 53: Healing After Pregnancy Loss with Kim Hooper and Meredith Resnick

Kim Hooper is the author of four novels, with her fifth (No Hiding in Boise) coming this June. Her personal experience of four pregnancy losses inspired to co-write All the Love: Healing Your Heart and FInding Meaning After Pregnancy Loss, which was released on March 23.

Meredith Resnick, LCSW, worked in healthcare for two decades and maintains a strong interest in the expressive arts. The co-author of All the Love: Healing Your Heart and Finding Meaning After Pregnancy Loss, her work also appears in the Washington Post, JAMA, PsychologyToday.com, Lilith, Los Angeles Times, Newsweek, Motherwell, Literary Mama and others.

In this episode, we discuss:

- relationships and infertility

- navigating grief

- pregnancy after loss

Episode 53 Transcript

Josephine Atluri:

Welcome to responding to life. A podcast where we talk about issues relating to health, fertility, and parenthood. On today's episode, I am joined by Kim Hooper and Meredith resonate. Kim is the author of four novels with her fifth, no hiding in Boise coming this June, her personal experience of four pregnancy losses inspired her to co-write all the love, healing, your heart, and finding meaning after pregnancy loss, which was released on March 23rd, Meredith resinate worked in healthcare for two decades and maintains a strong interest in expressive arts. She is the co-author of the book, all the love with Kim and her work also appears in the Washington post psychology today, the LA times, Newsweek and other publications. Welcome to the show, Kim and Meredith. I've been so excited to speak with you both today, and I can't wait to hear all about your experiences and the book that you just released.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah. Thank you for having us.

Kim Hooper :

Thank you.

Josephine Atluri:

So, as I mentioned in the introduction, you, co-authored a new book called all the love, healing, your heart, and finding meaning after pregnancy loss. Before we hear all about your fabulous new book, I'd love to hear how you both came about writing about this important topic by way of your fertility journey, Kim, and then afterwards from Meredith in regards to her role as a supportive friend through the process.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah, so, um, I I've always been a writer, but, um, I usually write, um, fiction. So this is the first time I've written a nonfiction book, um, starting in 2015. I, um, I lost my first pregnancy and then I, I ended up having four losses in total. My first loss was an ectopic pregnancy and then I had an early miscarriage. Um, and that I lost, um, my son in the second trimester for my third pregnancy.

And then my fourth was another ectopic pregnancy. Um, very unusual, like rare. And, um, my fifth pregnancy was totally textbook and I have a, now three and a half year old daughter. So, um, you know, these fertility journeys, don't always go that the way that you think that they will. And, um, I think I learned a lot about the grief process and about, um, you know, how to really kind of find meaning in, in these things. Um, but it was definitely a hard road to travel and I think that's what compelled me to want to put together a book. Um, because I knew that I felt very alone in my experiences and I wanted to make sure that if, you know, other people are out there and want some, not just comfort of somebody who's been through it themselves, but also some insights from therapists who, who can help kind of package and explain some of the feelings that go with the experience. So that's, you know, Meredith and I had been friends for several years. So, um, we talked about doing this book together where she would kind of offer therapeutic insights and I would share my personal story. So we kind of call it part memoir part therapy session.

Josephine Atluri:

Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us, Kim. I really appreciate your candor and your, uh, using your voice to amplify this topic and Meredith I'd love to hear from you then what it, what it was like to be in the supportive role.

Meredith Resnick:

Well, I think I'm trying to remember back, but I, I think as often people do, like, you know, that people lose pregnancies, that there's a miscarriage or stillbirth. And I think when Kim first encountered that the first time it was, um, heartbreaking and really sad. Um, and then when it kept happening, it was, um, it seemed almost unreal. Like how could this happen to one person, so many times and so consecutively. And of course we know that this happens every day. Um, I had worked previously in hospice, um, with hospice patients with end of life patients, but most of them were older adults. So I had a framework for dealing with grief. And I think, um, you know, I, I said to this, uh, said to Kim before that I do feel like there's something very sacred about grief. There's something very sacred about showing your vulnerability.

And I think it did feel to me like a privilege when she would come to me and talk to me or we text. And I think in many ways the book grew out of these very organic, um, just friend to friend texts and telephone calls and lunches that we'd have. Um, it wasn't some kind of construct that we decided, oh, we should write a book, but it was really organic. And I think that you see that reflected in the pages. So to answer your question, it was, I mean, it is an honor it's I don't feel uncomfortable when people show me their sadness, which I think is good. Um, and it's something that we hope that this book helps. Um, not just the people who are mourning the loss of their pregnancy, but people who love them to be able to be with them and sit with them and not have any expectations that they are in any other emotional state, other than where they are at the moment over their loss.

Josephine Atluri:

Well, that's a beautiful way of putting it Meredith. I appreciate, um, your description, um, how you were able to support your friend in the process and how that looked. So let's dive into that a little bit more then in talking about relationships in the midst of loss, primarily nurturing one's relationship first with your partner, when you're navigating loss in very separate ways. Often it's not one doesn't go through loss the same way as one would hope in terms of their partner's expectations and how they're, how they're going through it, and then diving into the relationship with, with friends and how to navigate those connections, especially when the other people don't have that experience or perspective. Kim.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. Um, I mean, I, we have a whole section in the book about connecting with your partner after a loss, because for me personally, and also in talking to several other people who have been through this, it's, it's so common for couples to have strain, um, after a pregnancy loss.

Um, I think one half of the bull, usually the non-gestational partner, the one is not carrying the baby is kind of feeling like they need to have be stoic and strong. And, um, you know, while the other partner feels like they're more breaking down, um, there can be resentments on both sides. I mean, when I was going through mine, I was of course, so consumed that I didn't, I was only focused on my own resentments. Like why can't my husband, um, show more emotion about this? Like, why am I the only one who's feeling this upset? Um, did it not affect him? And I think for him and talking to him and, you know, we did little like interviews with him in the book where you kind of see his thoughts alongside mine in the book. Um, I think he was kind of like, have I lost my wife?

Like how do I get her back? Um, you know, uh, it was very unsettling for him to see me sad and struggling because, you know, he'd kind of seen me as like a rock, um, and our in our life. So, um, you know, I've kind of developed compassion for both people in the situation. And I think that's why we wanted to give so much attention to that topic in the book. Um, in terms of friendships, I think you really do realize like who can be there with you in the hard times and who is not, um, afraid to go to that painful kind of deeper level. Um, I mean, I had some friends who were saying things like, let me know when you're up for a happy hour. And, um, I just kind of realized that those friends were not going to be my grief go-to friends.

Um, and sometimes you come back around to those people when life circumstances change, or sometimes you just outgrow a relationship because you just realize that you've been through so much, that it's kind of changed you and you don't relate as well. So, and I think either way is fine. Um, I don't think there's like a right or wrong about it, but I, I do feel like I kind of deepen the relationships that really mattered me the most. Um, and you know, some of it was painful realizing people who weren't really capable of being there for me, um, realizing, you know, what people can give and what they can't. And then I think in time putting it in perspective of, it's not a reflection of anything, but their own discomfort with grief, um, Meredith is not uncomfortable with grief. Like she said, she's worked in hospice, she's worked in therapeutic settings.

So she's very, um, open to human emotion, which is like the, a great gift. Um, that's something you want in a friend and not a lot of people I think are like that. I think many people are very, um, you know, afraid of, of pain and sorrow and they kind of run from it or brush over it. Um, and so you kind of just have to find your people who, who get it. And even if they haven't been through the same thing, Meredith hasn't lost a pregnancy, but I felt like she could understand and empathize with the feelings of grief. Um, and I think that's really the key for friends is even if you haven't been through it yourself to tap into some part of you that knows what grief feels like, and loss feels like,

Josephine Atluri:

thank you so much, Kim, for your reflections on the various relationships that were, that were touched with this fertility journey of yours, and you gave some really insightful advice on how to look at those, those people in your life and those relationships in the it's sort of the perspective of going through loss and you really hit the nail on the head when you put that, you know, people can only give what they can, um, and you can grow relationships.

And that's kind of how things worked out and to, to know who you can go to. So I'd love for you to touch on that a little bit, from that perspective, a bit more Meredith about someone who is finds themselves in that sort of role and how they can sort of look within to help support their friend, their loved one.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah. I, when Kim was talking, the thought occurred to me that it's, it's not about having the perfect thing to say. There's like, no one perfect thing to say when somebody's sad, um, or has suffered, um, just a devastating loss or the loss of, um, something that's meaningful to them, but another person may not understand. And I think that that's the key thing to remember that, um, you, you know, I think we often think like, well, I really relate to that person, but you may w I think what you really, what we really want to relate to is more the emotion versus the details of their loss. So I haven't been through a pregnancy loss, but I have been through loss and I know how painful that was for me. I know that people didn't understand. I know that people would ask me questions that I did not have the answer to.

And I think that like turning that around, if you're, if somebody you care about is suffered a loss, a pregnancy loss, or other drawing on that sadness that you felt or experienced in an area of your life will help. You intuitively know what to say or not say. And often it's fewer words, the better, it's like a hand squeeze. It's like, I'll text you. It's like, I'm just here. Um, I want you to know that I'm thinking about you and those are not trite things when they're said with real meaning behind them with real emotion behind them. So I think that's the main thing. Like, there's no perfect thing to say. It's not because I've worked. Yes, I've been around loss. And, but I think it's really my own experience with loss and grief and really honoring, you know, that, that process and that sadness that I felt and having come out of it that made me think like, yeah, I can sit across from you, Kim.

And I can, I just want to hear what you have to say and, um, you know, laugh when you're ready to laugh or try to make a joke that feels appropriate. Not, not trying to make her laugh, but if it feels right in the moment, um, that and something else that Kim said, Kim, I don't know if you remember this, but despite all the, um, the, you know, resentment that you said you felt for your husband, there were times when you'd say, like, I'm really worried about him. I I'm really concerned that he's, he's holding all this inside. And, um, so that was, you know, you can have more than one emotion at once. And I, I think that that really does, that did happen and it does happen. I hope that answered your question.

Josephine Atluri:

No, I did. And you know, it, it comes down to holding space as that other person in the relationship being willing and, and able to just have that space for that other person. And like you said, sometimes the fewer words, the better it calls to mind when someone, you know, people will ask you, how are you doing after a loss? Are you already doing, are you okay? And I know for myself and many of my own clients, we reflected, we instinctively just say, yeah, I'm doing okay. But then it's that, it's that person who can empathize and actually say, okay, how are you really doing to giving you that permission to release, sort of let it out and know that it's okay to express whatever it is that you're feeling in that moment. Um, you also mentioned in your book about returning that to normal life after loss, I'd love to hear, you know, how you discuss that in your book or any recommendations that you make to people for making that huge step.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. Um, again, this was another section we had in the book, um, because for me personally, it was very difficult. Um, I felt kind of, and when we say normal life, I mean, we kind of say it in quotes because, um, I mean, what is normal, especially after a loss that can be so jarring. Um, but for me personally, it was, it was like resuming certain routines, certain socializing going back to work. Um, and in all those instances, I felt kind of, um, disoriented is the word, like, kind of just like I was on another planet. Like everybody else was kind of going about their business. And I felt like I had gone through this thing. That to me was very monumental and I wasn't relating to them. Um, so in terms of advice, or I think some of the things we talk about in the book, like, for example, if you're back at work, um, carving out time in your day, if you can, for reprieve so that you can have, um, a time to kind of connect with yourself, um, in the midst of all the chaos of quote unquote normal life, um, I would go to my car on lunch breaks and sort of just either breathe or just have a cry if I needed to, or use that time to just kind of text in peace or read a book.

Um, so, um, just like a break in the day to kind of, um, come back to myself because it, it can feel very jarring to just be thrown back in the mix of the world, um, was particularly hard with pregnancy loss too, is that a lot of times people don't know you were pregnant because we have this on spoken rule about not sharing a pregnancy in the first trimester, which is when the majority of miscarriages happen. So, um, that's also very alienating. So when you're going back to life and, you know, you're at the gym and people are like, oh, I haven't seen you in awhile. How, you know, how's it going? And you just want to like cringe and crawl under a rock because how can you even answer that question, um, in a simple way. So, um, it can be overwhelming. I think just taking, taking space for yourself, if there are situations like at work, um, if there is somebody you work with that you can trust and kind of talk to and make them kind of like a person that you can lean on a little bit, if you can ask your manager, if you can have certain days where you work from home, if that's possible with the type of work you do, um, or just having breaks in a day to kind of help ease back into things.

Cause, um, it's just, it's difficult to get back into it. I don't, I don't know if there's any easy way Meredith might have tips on, on kind of going back. I can't remember all of the ones that we recommend in the book, but, um, I think it's really just being compassionate with yourself and what you need, um, and being patient with the process of it.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah, I think, um, as you were talking to everything that Kim said, but I think when you're off work and you're dealing with the sadness and the emotion, the anger, it's sort of like finding a way to integrate that into your work life. That's appropriate, obviously that you can, um, go to your car during lunch, go in the bathroom, close the door. If you have an office door, close it, go for a walk. Um, and also, uh, share the news with the person that you need to share it with. If it's your boss or the manager that will know, um, okay, she's going for a walk, let's let her be. Um, because it's, uh, the way I see it, the goal is not to have dealt with the loss over here in private, at home. And then I go back to work and I put on a facade.

I mean, what we're advocating for is a much more integrated way of dealing with loss and society, and that starts with the individual. So, um, you know, this is done for the individual herself, but our hope is that it affects society as at large one person at a time. So I think whatever way that worked for you at home, that's appropriate. If you stopped and meditated at two o'clock every day, you do that at work. Just take those five minutes and do that. Or if you have a meeting at two, do it from five to, at five to two, but keeping whatever agency you created at home and bringing that with you back to work, you're the same person. So we don't want like a binary thing where your did something good for yourself over here and you can't do it at work. It's gotta be joined together.

Josephine Atluri:

Those are great tips. Um, Kim and Meredith, thank you so much for sharing it. I especially loved the idea of, you know, allowing us a specific time for yourself to process things, to give yourself some space. And, and it's also great to bring up the idea that, you know, when you returned to a different aspect of your life to not feel like you have to put up a facade, because that in itself is so exhausting when you're going through grief to have to create a happy face for the benefit of other people. Um, so it's, that was a wonderful tip of at least letting one other person know, especially if they didn't know before, um, that this is what's happening and that you need to be able to take that space for yourself. I know I myself found it really hard to get back into life, um, super resentful and like life was just continuing to move on.

And for me, just with my second trimester loss and one with the loss of my mother just felt so frustrating. Um, because you feel like you had sort of, you weren't in that sort of pause of your life and then said go back into it. It's just so overwhelming. Yeah. So great tips, great tips. Um, okay, so then that brings me to another question about trying, trying again. So not even just going back to life, but this idea of trying again after it, you've had a loss I'd love to hear, you know, for yourself, Kim, after going through the first one and the next one, what was the mentality that you had to have in order to keep going?

Kim Hooper :

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know. I guess I would say after each loss, I temporarily said, I'm not doing this again. Like I can't go through this again, emotionally and physically, but I think once, some time had passed, I kind of reconnected with wanting the child and, um, you know, just feeling like I wanted, I wanted to try again, but I had to kind of do it in my own pace and time and, um, the loss of my son and the second trimester.

I mean, that took a little more time for me to decide to even try again. And at that point, I think people thought I was crazy, but, um, I just sort of knew in myself, like what I wanted to do, um, and talked about it with my husband, of course. And I think he would have been more comfortable kind of throwing in the towel than I would have been. Um, I just kept thinking, like, I know that we're meant to have a baby and, you know, I just, I just knew it. Um, and, but again, I always tell people, you kind of have to do it on your own time and in your own way, because people will push you to kind of, you know, I mean, the second you have a loss, they'll say, oh, the next one, the next one will stick. Or, you know, they say the most insensitive things about trying again.

Um, and each time I got pregnant, I would get kind of comments like, oh, you know, this one will be fine. Don't worry. And, um, so yeah, people kind of minimize both the decision to try again and what, how big of a decision that is. And then they minimize the anxiety and fear of being pregnant again, um, or making the decision to be pregnant again. So, um, it's, it's very fraught and I feel like it's such a personal thing. Um, when we had my daughter and I'm very open about this, um, I had my husband get a vasectomy cause I was like, I can't go through this again. Um, I, I don't, I can't do it again. So I feel like I've kind of lived both ways of trying, trying again, trying again, and then making a very conscious decision saying, I can't go, I don't want to go through this again.

I feel like we won the lottery by having our daughter and, um, you know, I I'm very content with that, but, um, I just kind of knew my abilities, the anxiety that I had carrying her for, you know, the nine, 10 months, um, I didn't want to go through, I just didn't want to do it again. So I don't think we encourage or discourage anyone in the book, um, to try again or not. It's such a personal thing. And I don't think that there's a right or a wrong path. Um, so much is dependent on each person, what they think they can handle emotionally and physically what their relationship can handle. Sometimes there's financial issues, especially if, um, IVF and other procedures are involved. So, um, I think just being really honest with yourself and trying to block out all of those messages from other people who kind of push you one way or the other, um, and, and just get to the heart of what you want and, and kind of what your spirit can handle.

Josephine Atluri:

Well, thank you so much as you were speaking, it just brought up so many of the same issues that, you know, that I sort of had to navigate myself when, um, after we lost her twins in the second trimester, just having to having that pause forced upon me, because up until that point, we've just been going back to back cycles and, you know, it feels so time sensitive. So you feel so pressured to just knowing, but it was forced upon me. And that was the time that gave me to, like you were talking about was just having that time to reflect and to figure out if I was what I could actually handle. And at the time I was kind of in that same boat, I'm like, I just don't think I can do this again. It was just how we ended up adopting our first child.

And, but then when I did become pregnant again, it was, it was torturous caring for those that it was not, it was not the pregnancy that I had hoped for, because it was not at all that textbook sort of fun, glowing experience. It was really, it was really, um, tough.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. And me personally, I had a lot of sadness and anger about that, and I still, I still struggle with things like baby showers and kind of peoples happy-go-lucky pregnancy announcements, because I don't feel like I ever had like the happy-go-lucky pregnancy experience. I had traumatic medical, you know, emotional issues, like from the start of my pregnancy journey. So, um, you know, I, I think it's normal to kind of have ongoing feelings about that and sort of like longing, um, for that, because if you've been through loss, it does kind of change how you have future pregnancies.

It changes your relationship with your children if you're, if you have them. Um, so, you know, I think it's, it's definitely an intense thing.

Josephine Atluri:

Yeah, no, there's definitely a loss, a loss of expectations that you have to also remember to sort of grieve and process through it that I didn't realize I had to do until much later, uh, Meredith I'd love to hear your advice on how to stay connected to the person that you are outside of this, these tough battles of loss and grief and trying to also become parents. You know, oftentimes we get so caught up in this end goal of becoming a parent. And then when we hit road bumps, you can begin to lose sight of yourself. So from your work as a therapist, I love to hear if you have any sort of tips on how one can stay tethered to that other person that they are outside of this whole process.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah. Or the person that they are, um, that person outside is the person inside that, that it's really, you're, you're a whole person, but when you were talking and this doesn't relate to the question that it, it occurred to me when we were writing the book, but also just in the years, leading up to it that how many expectations, uh, we have about parenthood. I mean, not just about getting pregnant, but then about what parenthood is supposed to be and how your kids are supposed to be raised. And I mean, there's so many, um, it's cultural expectations, but you know, we're part of the culture. So the more we can kind of shake up those expectations, the more things can change. Um, but I, I don't even know when it started that we became this like really goals oriented. We're going to be, you know, parents, and then you kids have to go to this school and get into that college.

And anyway, it's all kind of related. It's like, somehow we've lost touch with, um, the sense that, I mean, it sounds cliche, but that the person who you are is enough. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have a baby. I'm not saying it's wrong to adopt. I've also adopted, um, we have to adopt daughters who we adopted as a teen and a tween. So that was like completely off the charts in terms of what's expected. So I do know what people said to us, and I know that the same thing gets said, um, by people who, uh, two people who've lost their pregnancy. But I think it's the whole idea of not thinking that you're two separate people. It sounds so disembodied, but that, that person who's grieving is really the one that you want to remember when you're feeling like you have to keep up, you have to keep trying, you have to make it work perfectly.

Um, because that grieving self is, um, it's valuable. And I think it there's like almost an internal north star. They're telling you, like, you were both saying, I can't do this anymore. I have to lay it down and I have to see what will work for me. What can I do? How can I find what's the right way, whether it's parenthood or not parenthood, um, for me or another baby or not, or adoption or not. Um, and I think the only way that that's done is by doing it, there's no way to do it perfectly. It's going to hurt. It's going to feel painful. But knowing that that's normal really does help you take the next step. Like it's gonna hurt. I'm going to do it. I'm gonna see what I learn about myself. I'm going to see how it feels, then I'm gonna change course. If I have to, it may only be a little I'm going to take the next step. I mean, it really is about that next indicated step only. And I think that that's more manageable than having, it's good to have a big picture. I'd like to do this, but really when it comes down to it, it's just like that next step. And then the next one, and that can kind of get you through the day.

Josephine Atluri:

Yeah, no, I, I totally resonate with that and I can keep speaking with both of you, just so many wonderful tips and advice that you shared with the audience thus far, but I'd love to have them pick up your wonderful book. So if you can just quickly go over what they can expect in the book and, um, uh, where they can purchase it. I'd love to share that, please.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. So, um, the title of the book, again, is all the love, healing, your heart, and finding meaning after pregnancy loss. Um, it's written, so I share like an entry, for example, of my personal experience and then Meredith responds. Um, we also have another co author or contributor Dr. Hong Gavin, and she's really specializes in intersectionality. Um, and how things like race and culture, um, socioeconomic issues can intersect with pregnancy loss and kind of compound grief.

Um, so they kind of respond to my personal experience. So they're short entries and they're all done by topic. We have a really detailed table of contents. So if on a certain, you know, phase of your journey, you're really focused on, you know, connecting with your partner or you're having issues with your partner. You can flip to that section. And within that section, there's entries with very clear titles. So you can go and find, you know, um, whatever speaks to whatever you're trying to get through that day. Like if you're going back to work after a loss, there's a section on that. If you're, um, thinking about trying again, but you're not sure there's a section on that. If you're dealing with kind of like the phases of grief and the roller coaster of emotions, there's different sections on different, emotional, um, issues that you can go through.

So we want to make it really user-friendly. We don't imagine that many people will kind of in one sitting, read it front to back, you might want to jump around. Um, there might be certain topics that speak to you more than others, depending on where you're at in, um, in your journey and in your grief. Um, but the hope is that it feels kind of like you're talking to somebody who's been through it, and you also have like a little therapist on your shoulder. Who's kind of like, you know, encouraging you to have compassion for yourself by explaining kind of like what the mechanisms are behind the feelings that you're having kind of normalizing and validating the different feelings. Um, so yeah, it's kind of like a companion guide and it's available everywhere. I mean, you can order it on Amazon or bookshop wherever you normally buy books. Um, and the Meredith, I don't know if you had anything to add. I missed anything.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah, no, I think that's right. And, and it really is about, um, it's like, uh, Hong and I are both have therapeutic backgrounds, but it's really written in a, more of a friendship way, like synthesizing, um, everything that Kim said, but people won't feel like they're reading an academic lecture when they read it. They'll really feel like when they hear our voices, that we're sitting across the table and talking to them. Um, and I, I trust as I've heard from other readers, they will recognize all the feelings that Kim writes about in the book. Um, just how comprehensive it is. Yeah. And there's a really funny section where, um, she goes into a lot of detail about the things people say and really what they should, and then she unpacks them and we discuss that. So that's, I mean, I, I, yeah, I think we'll like that.

Kim Hooper :

we try to include some humor and some levity and lightness, um, because yeah, it's all normal.

Josephine Atluri:

Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for this great resource to the fertility community. Definitely something that will contribute to normalizing the conversation. De-stigmatizing the taboo around infertility for one and miscarriage and pregnancy loss for the other. So I really appreciate the work that, that you both have done. And I always like to end my podcast by having my guests share their gratitude as a way to example, I shifting over from a, perhaps a negative or overwhelmed state into one of positivity, Kim.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. I mean, I am today feeling very grateful, um, for the community, that pregnancy loss community. Um, I was just briefly on Instagram earlier, and I was messaging with a woman who had, you know, was responding to one of our posts. And I just it's so wonderful.

I mean, we, we keep telling people it's like the worst club with the best members. And I just feel like I've gained so much, not necessarily in-person friendship, but just like comradery and comfort. Um, and even though I have some distance from my losses now, I mean a few years, almost four years, um, I still feel so engaged with the community and I'm just grateful that there's all these women with stories to tell who are being vulnerable and open and honest. And, um, I just think that's going to be so healing for us as like a society as a whole. I know that kind of is world peace level, but I love it. My thought.

Josephine Atluri:

Yeah. Thank you, Meredith.

Meredith Resnick:

Yeah. Um, well, from my perspective, I I'm, so there's sort of a two-prong thing. One is that, um, we've had a couple of friends whose daughters have experienced loss and they heard that we were writing the book and they bought it and they've been, um, just have felt so comforted by everything feeling like they were so alone. And then they picked up the book and mean it's just really heartening to be part of a project like that. The other part is that I'm hearing from therapists, um, really from all over the country, how they've started recommending this book to their clients. And that's huge to me because that will touch people, that we may not touch through a podcast, but through their therapists, through their doctor. So that's something that I'm very grateful for.

Josephine Atluri:

That's wonderful. And also I'd love for you to share before we end how the audience can connect with you outside of the book. Are there websites, social media?

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. We have a website, um, all the love after loss.com. Um, and we're on Instagram and Twitter, um, at all the love talk. So that's the best way to reach out to us Meredith and I both are easy to find to, um, through our personal accounts. Like, you know, I'm sure you'll have our names up with the podcast. Um, so we're easy to find that way too.

Josephine Atluri:

Wonderful. Well, thank you again so much for joining me for today's discussion though. It's such a wonderful book and I really appreciate your candor and all the advice that you gave to the listeners today.

Kim Hooper :

Yeah. Thank you for having us.

Meredith Resnick:

Thank you.

Josephine Atluri:

Okay. That was it. Thank you so much. It was so great. Good. Thank you. Yeah, it should be out in probably a month or month and a half, but I'll send you an email with all the links and the graphics that you can share. And thanks again so much for everything that you've done for the community and since. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for your podcast. You're also doing great stuff. Wonderful speaking to both. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the responding to life podcast for more info on today's guest, check out the episode summary. I'd love to connect with you more. So be sure to check out my website, responding to life podcast.com for links to previous episodes articles I've written and interviews I've done on mindfulness, meditation and fertility and parenting. You'll also find free video meditations on my site and on my YouTube channel Josephine that worry meditation.

If you'd like to book a one-on-one session with me, you can do so on the website. You can also follow me on Instagram at Josephine RN, Marie for daily inspiration and mindfulness tips. Finally, I'd love for you to join my Facebook groups, to connect with a supportive community and receive greater insight on how to incorporate mindfulness into your life. Check out the mindful parenting group with Josephine that Larry or the empowering your fertility group. Thanks again for tuning in today. I look forward to sharing more conversations with you on how to respond to life in a more mindful way.