RTL Episode 54: Navigating towards love, abundance and unity with AmyJo, CEO Pavo Navigation Coaching
RTL Episode 54: Navigating towards love, abundance and unity with AmyJo, CEO Pavo Navigation Coaching
On today's health and parenting episode, I am joined by AmyJo Mattheis. AmyJo is the CEO of Pavo Navigation Coaching, a unique resource that helps companies eliminate toxicity from the workplace. Often described as a "sparkplug," Mattheis brings years of rich and varied professional experiences to all of her endeavors. She is a scholar and professor, a seasoned organizational leader and executive, and a keen listener.
Mattheis has always been committed to being a catalyst for change, and to transforming systems of exclusivity and separation into opportunity for all. She considers it her life purpose to equip individuals, organizations and companies with tangible, easy and actionable tools that take the office from a place that is toxic and siloed to one that is collaborative, innovative and welcoming.
In today's episode, we discuss:
AmyJo's methodology on addressing fear, lack, separation and navigating towards love, abundance, and unity
How to balance working while being a mother (especially during work from home/virtual school)
How to take an effective "mental health day" from work
Episode 54 Transcript
Josephine Atluri:
Welcome to responding to life. A podcast where we talk about issues relating to health, fertility, and parenthood. On today's episode, I am joined by AmyJo Mattheis. AmyJo is the CEO of Pavo Navigation Coaching, a unique resource that helps companies eliminate toxicity from the workplace. Often described as a "spark plug," Mattheis brings years of rich and very professional experiences to all of her endeavors. She is a scholar and professor, a seasoned organizational leader and executive, and a keen listener. AmyJo has always been committed to being a catalyst for change and to transforming systems of exclusivity and separation into opportunity for all. She considers it her life purpose to equip individuals, organizations, and companies with tangible easy and actionable tools that take the office from a place that is toxic and siloed to one that is collaborative, innovative, and welcoming. Welcome to the show. AmyJo, I'm so excited for you to be joining me here today and very excited for all the great things that we're going to be talking about today.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Yeah, it's so good to be here, Jo, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.
Josephine Atluri:
So I asked you to come on to this show because I'm always looking for people who assist others in their responses to life. Hence the name of my show. And as I mentioned previously to my audience, uh, when we come from a place of reactivity based on emotions and based on innate reactions from the past that we've tend to have in time and again, or we can shift to a more mindful state, a place of awareness and clarity to allow us to make positive responses to life's challenges. And so that's why I was drawn to the work that you're doing. And then as I looked into your website, I just loved that section about your description of how you came about the name. And so, um, Pavo you're writing that it means peacock in Latin, and I didn't know this, that peacocks can't be poisoned. And it says on your site that they just ingest it and transmute it into fertilizer, which is amazing. And then your choice of the word navigation, navigate instead of manage and how manage implies control. And that the truth is we can control things. So I'd love for you to start off by talking about what you do, um, with your clients and how you help them respond to life's challenges.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Yeah. I'm so glad you went on my site and you found it helpful. That's just fun to hear. Yeah. Um, yeah. So the name was, as you said, very intentional, um, because what we do with our clients and with teams in the workplace is we equip them with tools to transmute, toxic work environments and actually turn them into, um, into effective ways to cultivate healthy, collaborative, creative, engaging, interactive, respectful, mutual work environments and work experiences. Um, so primarily all workplaces have some level of toxicity. Some are more extreme than others, but I'm pretty sure that it's safe to say that most of your listeners out there will at some point be nodding their head, right? Like, yes, I experienced dysfunction, um, distrust. I don't feel safe. I feel threatened. I feel like I'm constantly having to prove, prove, prove, um, I have to overwork, um, just to keep my role at all of these, um, experiences are consequences of a toxic work environment.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And so what we do is we follow the way of the peacock and we equip them with tools and practices that include even language and vocabulary to use in everyday real life situations that are actionable, accessible, and immediately, um, impactful that begin to do what the peacock does, which is transmute what is toxic into what is potentially, um, fertile and creative environments to grow profit, you know, to grow productivity, to grow, um, collaboration. And those are the environments that most of us want to be in. And as you were saying, the navigation piece, um, that's one of the tools, actually, an example of a tool is navigating something instead of trying to manage it and control it, because then here's an example of one of the tools they're very simple. Um, intentionally is when we hear ourselves talk about control orr, you know, I hear it all the time.
AmyJo Mattheis:
I just need to focus on the things that are in my control and when we use the word control, it's very loaded. And the reality is that when we use that word, what we're thinking is I'm going to focus on the things that I can make happen the way I think they ought to happen and get exactly the outcome that I believe I need to have and exactly in the way, and in the time, that I'm going to say is, has to happen. And the reality is that oftentimes that doesn't go that way, not because of anything we've done, particularly, but by other things that happen that impact this project that we're working on. And, um, we stress out. That's where a lot of stress comes from. We call it, we call it white knuckling in a project, you know, you're like holding onto it and I've got to get this done at this time and in this way.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And it has to look just like this and, um, that is an incredibly stressful way to go about it. And it also if you could see me right now, like my body's all tight and it's all crunched and we are far less effective that way. Um, and when we let go and allow ourselves to navigate, which is about being clear, it's about being, um, uh, having clear expectations, clarity of deliverable, clarity of time, and it's about knowing whose job is what where's mine ends and yours begins. It's also about knowing what resources I have to support me. Who can I go ask a question? Knowing the resources on my team, oh, this part of the project is not where I excel at, but I know that this is where Jo does so I'm going to go ask her if she can take this part from me. I'm going to go delegate it to her. Um, and that's in the, in essence, that's what navigation is instead of the control of management, which when storms hit us, if you can think of a ship, right when storms hit us and we're navigating it and they blow us off course, um, the navigation tools that I just outlined allow us to get back onto course, or to find a new course to the place that we wanted to get to.
Josephine Atluri:
I love that description that you just described for us so very nicely, um, that idea of navigating is definitely, definitely more productive than that idea of trying to control. And that's often what is talked about on this show is this idea of control, whether it's within our wellness or our fertility and trying to become parents, or once we are parents trying to control our lives with our children. Um, and so putting it under the perspective of navigation instead, and especially that visual of that ship in the water and having to sort of navigate it out of the storm is just so powerful to me. So, um, I just love that. Thank you.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Hey Jo, can I jump in for one other thing that I think, um, you pinged in, in my consciousness, um, with what you just said that might be helpful for your listeners in regard to work, but also in regard to parenting, um, is that we don't have control over what our kids do; over, how they respond, how they react over what they want, how loud their voices are. But we do have choice. And one of my clients brought up to me when we were talking about this in regard to her own work-life experience. She said, oh, wow, I'm realizing that this is true for even how I help my son navigate his own need, to like control a situation, um, that I can actually give him this tool, like of how and where can you identify where you can make a choice in this situation instead of having it be just, it has to be this way or I'm gonna throw a temper tantrum. Right. And so I think that that tool of recognizing where we feel like we should be in control and then like opening our hands to that navigation and discovering, well, really, where do I have choice in this situation? And that's also a very supportive, helpful tool to navigate instead of managing control.
Josephine Atluri:
Yes. Choices, definitely a big part of it all I'd have to say choice and that idea of letting go. And so often that I tell my mindfulness and meditation students to do is to, um, to release and let go. And then it allows you that clarity to really see what, what you are able to choose to do and how you can go about doing it. And then as you say, how you can navigate what this choice is that you've made. Um, so you touched upon, uh, your, whenever your clients talking about how they can translate it into their own lives with their children. I think that's a great way for us to segue way into, um, how, you know, how, what you help people do in terms of managing stress and anxiety in the workplace, how it affects not only them as an employee, but overall within the company and then how it gets translated and brought into one's life outside of work
AmyJo Mattheis:
Stress. Yes. Stress, stress, and anxiety. Um, it's interesting. I also, in addition to my company, I also host with another, uh, partner of mine, um, who was a former client. We host a weekly, um, circle up, we call it, we actually call it a lau circle up an L A U circle up, which maybe this will give me an opportunity to segue way into the construct of Fliss and Lau, um, which I, if your listeners are confused right now and don't know what I'm talking about, that's okay. Because I will explain it in a minute, but on, on the weekly, lau circle up that we were talking about last night, we were talking just about this very thing, burnout, stress, and overwhelm, and where does it come from and how do we navigate it? And, um, I said to, to, to the women who were gathered there, um, you're, you're probably not going to like what I say next, but, um, it is my belief and experience that stress and all the biological physiological responses to stress in our life, to the pressures and to, to what we are experiencing is real, it's credible, it's valid.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And once we bring awareness to, to what those, um, indicators are of the fact that we are in a stressful place, or we are stressing out, um, now we're in choice and we can choose whether or not we are going to continue to feed the stress or choose whether, as you said, we're going to shift to feed something that actually is healthy and in support of my life and my health and my relationships. Right. And so, um, let me get to your question about how I coach and my coaches coach to do that through this, um, construct that I have created of fear, lack and separation and love abundance and unity. Is that okay if I do that now? Yeah, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Okay, cool. So it is my belief, and I have come to this place through a very, um, rich and diverse career that has taken me on multiple paths.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Um, I've come to this place to, to understand that the world that we live in and the way it works, the foundation of it and all that, it has shaped through that foundation. And by that, I mean how we do everything, whether it's how we do business, how we do family, how we do parenting, how we do, um, education, healthcare, government, criminal justice, anything in our world, it's been shaped and formed through the three primary energies of fear, lack, and separation. And because that is so, we have all been really trained in that we've been trained in the story of lack and scarcity, that there's not enough for everybody. And so we have to, um, really be on guard and sometimes even fight for what we need for me and mine. Right. And, um, and that, that leads to fear because we're constantly in this, in this state of anxiety about, um, not getting what we need, not having enough, um, whatever the enough is, whether it's time, whether it's money, whether it's love, whether it's, um, um, a job, whether it's, uh, a child, a child, right.
AmyJo Mattheis:
We, we live in, in fear that there's not enough. And then that creates separation because, um, if I am in competition with you for the small amount that exist, then we separate ourselves from each other. And we also separate ourselves from ourselves. The good news, the great news actually is that even though we have been schooled with the idea that we actually come from lack and fear and separation and different belief systems call it different things, but I like fear, lack, and separation, which we call Fliss because it's very accessible. Um, it's, it's, you know, it doesn't matter what, what gender you are, what ethnicity you are, what culture you came from, what belief system you came from. Everybody can access the idea of fear, lack, and separation, and all the iterations of all of those. We didn't come from there. That's the good news.
AmyJo Mattheis:
The good news is that the truth of our origin story is that we all come from love, abundance and unity, or lau that are the opposing energies to fear, lack, and separation, and that are actionable and accessible to all of us to remember how to practice them in our lives, in every single situation. So how do love, abundance and unity show up, right? How do they show up in a situation when we feel stress? And one way, actually it's a foundational tool. You can use this tool in any situation is to identify the fear, lack, and separation, right? So where in this case of navigating stress, where is the stress coming from? What is the pressure that is on me? Maybe it's somebody said last night in the circle up, um, I feel stressed out, uh, because there are expectations on me of like, all the other mothers are doing this, so I should be doing this.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Right. Um, I, every, all the other families are putting their kids in this, s I should be putting my kids in this, or, um, so identifying, where is this stress coming from? What's the origin of it, remembering that stress is a choice. And so I'm going to say, okay, I see that my stress is coming from that. I don't want to feed that. Not going to make that bigger. And then shifting consciously or mindfully, as you say to choosing what I want to feed is abundance, spaciousness, autonomy, agency, my own expression of my voice, what I really truly want. And let's just use that example from my circle up last night, what I want is for my kids to be grounded and know that they're loved and for them to do what they want to do, not what I want to make them do, even though all these other parents are doing it.
AmyJo Mattheis:
So the clarity then is like, oh, my kids don't want to go to this thing. I want my kids to get clear about what they want and do what they want. So, oh, I'm going to let myself not do this. Like, I'm not going to make my kids go to whatever this thing is that everybody else is doing. And I'm going to take a stand for me and what is important to me as a parent and let go of that stress. I'm not, I'm not going to take it on anymore. Um, so that's one example of how to use that tool of identifying the Fliss and then consciously choosing not to feed it, and then shifting to find actionable ways to feed and grow love, abundance and unity. And it works in the workplace as much as it works in our personal lives, whether that's in our intimate profess or excuse me, intimate personal relationships, or our professional relationships, I'll pause there.
Josephine Atluri:
That was fantastic. I totally loved everything about what you said. There are just so many different alignments with, with the mindfulness meditation teachings that I have with, with my own practice and, um, you know, the stress being a choice. It's amazing how, um, people oftentimes think it, it controls them and takes them over without realizing that there is a process by which we can identify what's happening and then make that conscious decision of which path to actually follow. Um, so I thank you for sharing with us that your, your methodology of your lack and separation. And then I just love the love abundance. Unity is just amazing to have, it's helpful to have, um, all these different strategies and tools laid out so that you can easily see how different scenarios within your own life can, um, sort of fit into it and have that be applied to it, to make it work. And you mentioned a lot about, um, speaking and working with, uh, working mothers and I'd love for you to transition over, to discussing how you help, um, working mothers, you know, navigate the challenges of balancing work and in their home life.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Yeah, it's a trick. Um, and the whole thing is the whole question is ensconced in flissiness, right. Um, because of a variety of things that you and I know, and I'm sure all your listeners know is that there are different expectations for women than there are for men. Um, I have a client currently who, who, um, I've been with for quite a while, and I was with her through her whole fertility treatment. And she's now, um, one week from going on mat leave. And we've been talking a lot about, um, the impacts of what it means to be a woman going on mat leave, as opposed to, um, men who, who are having a baby. Right. Um, and the expectations change, and the question about like, oh, am I going to have my role when I get back? Um, and also how do I navigate, um, whether or not I want to come back and, um, how do I, how do I make those kinds of, of decisions, or even allow myself the space to ask that question?
AmyJo Mattheis:
Um, and so I think we need to, or it is important to presence that flissiness around women working in the workplace. Um, and I have clients who, um, have experienced being judged because they do work. I have had, I have clients who are stay-at-home moms who feel judged because of it. So I think we, we can have it, like the flissiness of this, of this subject matter is an equal opportunity offender. Um, and within that, what is the first step is getting clarity about what you require. So some people require that I spend X amount of time. Like I am always done at five, so that I am the one cooking with my kids. I am the one spending the evening with them. I am with my partner, we're doing bath time and we're doing that so I am not back on my computer after I finished a day. A day is a day and it's done. That's important to know because that will drive how you navigate the, either the workplace environment and culture that you're already in, that maybe expects you to work at night. Um, or if, you know, you don't want that to help you look for a place and a workplace culture that says yes to that and respects it. Um, so you have to know what you require. You have to know what your priorities are. Go ahead.
Josephine Atluri:
No, no, I'm just agreeing with everything you're saying. I just totally vibing with it. I love it. You do. It does require, it requires, I'm constantly talking on my podcast about the power of the pause. And in that pause, it gives you a moment to reevaluate and to ask yourself these, these introspective questions that maybe you haven't ever had the moment to really consider, because then it, it allows you to have that moment of clarity and then it gives you that again, that opportunity to make a choice based on what you have found out about what your new needs are, we're constantly evolving and our lives are constantly changing. So that means that, you know, our paths also thereby change the story that we created for ourselves in the beginning isn't necessarily a story that we find ourselves in many years later. And so we constantly need to take that pause to evaluate and ask ourselves those questions.
Josephine Atluri:
And I love how you put it in that perspective, when it comes to this idea of, of being, um, a woman who has all these expectations that they have to navigate through and find themselves having to make choices based off of that expectations are just, I mean, they are, they create so much unnecessary stress, um, especially when they're not addressed or when we don't even see that they're playing such a huge role in our lives. Um, and so that I would love to transition that into this idea of taking a mental health day from work. It was one of the things that, um, is something that you speak about. And I would love to hear the strategies that you found have helped your clients to take this, this mental wellness day from work.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Yeah, absolutely. Um, I just want to say one more thing about what we were just talking about, and I'll use that to transition into this. One of the reasons why I agree a hundred percent with you, that we are in evolution all the time. And so we need to give ourselves permission to consistently be checking in with what it is that we need, um, is also because not, it's not just because we're always evolving, but it's also because as women, especially, we have been trained to disconnect from what we really need and what we want. And we have been been schooled and taught and shaped to be the ones who put everybody else's needs above ours and so I experienced in my own life, but as a coach with, with, um, I experienced this with men as well, but particularly with women, um, that's a hard question.
AmyJo Mattheis:
What do you really want? What do you need? What do you require? In fact, a lot of women go require, ooh, I don't want to use that word. What do you mean? What do I require? Um, but they are powerful words, right? Like what do you insist on for yourself? Um, is, well, my invitation is make that, the first question, then you decide about the rest of what else is going to happen in your day. What do I require today? Um, what do I need? And then let me look at how the rest of everybody else's needs can, can happen. And that's true for work and at home. Um, and, but we don't do that. We don't do that. We, we try, um, because, because we're, we've been told to, we try to meet everybody's expectations. So we try to be the mom, the wife, the partner, the friend, the, the professional.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And we try to do it all in, as somebody said last night, how do you do this all in a 24 hour day? And it's like, my answer was you don't, right. And, and if you, we try, it is unsustainable. And that's what leads to burnout and overwhelm and stress. And that's why taking intentional mental health days are critical and they were before COVID, but now even more so important. And what I guide my, my clients through is I have created a guide actually. Um, and it's intended to simply be that a guide like you can use the parts of it you want, use the parts that resonate, let, let the other part go. Um, but it is to, to be intentional about creating what I call sacred space. And by that I simply mean space that has been set aside for you to intentionally release what needs to be released and get clear about what we were just talking about needs, wants, requirements for my life, and then, um, move through to, okay, so at the end of this day, what are my next steps?
AmyJo Mattheis:
How am I going to proceed out of this mental health day? And I, I wrote this guide because I had heard so many times my clients saying over and over again, well, I spent a mental health day, but it didn't help at all. And well, what did you do on your mental health day? Well I played video games most of the day. Um, or, well, I've watched Netflix, I binged or, well, I, you know, and, and they can't figure out why that didn't make things better. Um, because what we need to do is exactly what you're talking about, Jo, is release what isn't serving us and get clear about that. What is that? And then, and, and give ourselves permission to let it go and then get clarity about what do I need, what do I insist on in my life, in my work, in my personal relationships, in my parenting relationships.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And then from there affirm, you know, that that is, um, that is good to get that clarity and to own it and give ourselves permission to take a stand for that. And then, um, it's clearer about priorities then, what are those priorities for my next days for how I'm going to move through what feels chaotic and heavy and overwhelm at work, or what feels that way perhaps at home. And, um, so that's what an intentional mental health day is. Um, my guide starts with different ways to create that sacred space. Um, and really it's all about calling in the energies of love, abundance and unity. There's, you know, that that's the only belief system that I teach or preach. Um, and then there's a couple prompts for people to respond to and journal if they want to. There's also suggestions about, um, different exercises to do, to get stuff out, you know, to get the toxicity out.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Um, and, um, and then at the very, at the end, it, it is to do something, uh, lavish and, and loving for yourself. Um, I just had a client who used this last week and they said, and I was surprised, I didn't think they were going to use it. And, um, they said, so I used the guide and, um, I had no idea it would be so impactful. And, and they actually said, you know, I never cried that much. Like I've never allowed myself to cry. Um, and, um, this is like, feels like a new beginning, um, just to be intentional about it can be a new beginning for people.
Josephine Atluri:
That's just, I love all of it. I love the idea of being intentional. I mean, it just so many, so many things that are very much what I ascribe to and try to teach my students when I'm guiding them on an introduction into mindfulness and meditation and awareness. Well, you know, I always ask my guests to, to share with us a lesson learned or takeaway that listeners can take into consideration, but you've given us so many, but I'll just ask for one last one and how the listeners can respond to life in a more mindful manner. If there was one thing that they could do today to, um, to do that.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Yeah. I think the one takeaway to do today would be to increase your awareness of your language. So when you're using the word stress, so stressed out, this is so hard, I'm burned out. Um, or, um, even the word control like, well, I'm just going to look at the things I can control. Well, I have to control this. Um, whatever it is, uh, bring awareness to your language and then make a commitment that when you say these words stressed, stressed out, any version of that burned out, I'm overwhelmed and control. When you say those words, make a commitment to pause, as you said, and ask, what do I really mean? And how else can I express what I'm experiencing here? Because we call these words, uh, flissy blankets or fliss blankets, because we use them so generally all the time, we actually forget or get less aware of what is really happening of the specificity of what is going on for us.
AmyJo Mattheis:
And when we are less aware, we're less clear. And it's when we are in confusion and obfuscation about not really understanding what's happening. That's when we, that's when we stress out, that's when we all those narratives of fear and lack and separation, and they send us into these, you know, whirlwinds. Um, so bring awareness to your language and invite yourself to get specific about what you really mean. And my invitation would be to go further from that, as you exercise that muscle to, like, I just asked the client, I was on right before, before I came on with you, Jo, I asked her, I said, are you open to no longer using the word hard? And they laughed and said, like, why like, are you aware of the number of times you've used it in this session? And they were like, they laughed, they're like, not at all. And so we use these words and they have weight to them and that adds to the stress. So that's the takeaway.
Josephine Atluri:
That is a great one. I really, I really dig that. And it's very impactful. Just the choice of, you know, I've often, um, when I ask my clients to journal and things, one of the word choices is I have to do something versus I get to like completely changes what it is that you were trying to do. What's on your list. And then it switches just instantly little things. So your words, you're right. They really have great weights and meaning to it and can change your, your whole day and your perspective. Well, thank you so much, AmyJo I always like to end my podcast by having, you know, speaking of that shift from negativity and positivity to have my guests share their gratitude for the day,
AmyJo Mattheis:
My gratitude for the day is my gratitude for the day. Well, I'm grateful for being on here to be able to talk about this with your listeners, and I'm grateful for the work that you're doing. Um, and I guess I am grateful for the clarity and what I believe is true, that we all come from love, abundance and unity because it, it, especially in these times, it gives me such assurance that we do not have to stay here and that it is within our human capacity to shift away from the ugliness of fear, lack, and separation, and, and create a world for ourselves and our children that we want to live in. I'm grateful for that.
Josephine Atluri:
I'm grateful for the connection so that we can have this conversation. It's been amazing. And I'm so happy to it with the listeners and the spirit of giving and receiving I'd love for you to share how that audience can connect with you to learn more perhaps to work with you.
AmyJo Mattheis:
Absolutely. The easiest way would be through the website and that's www.pavonavigation.com. You could, if you're like, oh, I want to find out, oh, it should also invite you if anybody wants to come to the lau circle ups on Wednesday nights, those are totally free and they're from five to six pacific. And, um, you can come when you want to leave when you need to. Um, and, uh, everyone's welcome. And so if you, if you know, you want to talk with me or you wanna get on the lau circle up list, just send me, shoot me an email. That's just my name, AmyJo@pavonavigation.com.
Josephine Atluri:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. What a great resource to be able to tap into that sounds amazing. Well, thank you so much, AmyJo, this has been so insightful and I've had a great time, um, speaking with you and getting to know more about your work. Yeah, me too. Thank you, Jo. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Responding to Life podcast for more info on today's guest, check out the episode summary. I'd love to connect with you more. So be sure to check out my website, respondingtolifepodcast.com for links to previous episodes, articles I've written and interviews I've done on mindfulness, meditation and fertility and parenting. You'll also find free video meditations on my site and on my YouTube channel, Josephine Atluri Meditation. If you'd like to book a one-on-one session with me, you can do so on the website. You can also follow me on Instagram at JosephineRAtluri for daily inspiration and mindfulness tips. Finally, I'd love for you to join my Facebook groups, to connect with a supportive community and receive greater insight on how to incorporate mindfulness into your life. Check out the mindful parenting group at Josephine Atluri or the Empowering Your Fertility group. Thanks again for tuning in today. I look forward to sharing more conversations with you on how to respond to life in a more mindful way.